The next two hours I will firstly introduce you who are the two great scholars who will talk here. Then they will have the opportunity to represent their topics and talk about their work for almost half an hour each of them. And then they will have the opportunity to exchange together, to ask each other questions. And then it's your turn. You have the possibility to ask them, to talk with them, to bring a point you want to know, and so on. So therefore, until it's your turn, I would love to tell you that please let your microphone muted until you have the opportunity to say something so we really don't have any technical issues. And as Gergane said, we will also record the whole talks until the big discussion. So when the big discussion will come, where you also can be involved, we will stop recording this so you really have your safe space and you also can really talk freely about topics you are interested in and ask questions and everything. So yes, and if there's anything from my side or you want to know or comments you really urgently want to add during the discussion of the speakers, you can add them in the chat and I will also take care of the chat and then I can read them later and summarize them and yes and you really can ask your question in German or in English. My Arabic is not so good but I can give my best to read it so we can try it also in Arabic but please don't judge it but we can try it and if there are any other languages, I think we will come through it so don't worry about this. Yes, and as I said, my name is Asma Ayyadh, I'm Asma Ayaidh Ayyadhiwala, I'm originally a community worker working a lot with Muslim, Egyptian, Arabic, North African community in Austria. I'm born here in Vienna. I'm born here in Vienna. I know that few of you are in Linz now. So I'm really, really happy that not only Linz, I think Lina is in Germany now. Are you in Germany, Lina? Or are you in Germany? OK. So we really have this privilege to come together, everybody from very different countries. And that's also a side effect of Covid. So, yeah, has good things too. And as we see, we have also like a very hybrid way to connect today. We have people joining from their mobile phones, people joining from the laptops, so people who are here in Zoom and people who are like sitting with each other since day, so it's also a very, very nice day to come together this time. What is my way to come through this topic, Islamic feminism? I'm writing my master's thesis now about Islamic feminism and my artistic work is also dealing a lot with the topic of decolonial feminism and feminism in general, but I grew up in a way which the word feminist is like very sewn in totally totally different ways and the first way is that when people see me and say see that I say that I'm dealing with feminism they like really wonder like aha you are you you are wearing a headscarf you're a Muslim woman and then you're dealing with the topic feminist how could it work with each other and a lot of white feminists who see this as the biggest biggest like two poles they ever saw that Muslim women with headscarf can deal and can say that she's working feminist and in the same way also coming from an Egyptian household where when you say feminist they have like very bad experience with it because they know how the term feminist or being feministic was used to colonize Egypt and also to the British to be in Egypt and want to free Egypt and all of this so the term feminism also in the in the Muslim community where Muslim community, why do we need feminist movement or all of this? Because we have this right in our religion, so why should we take something which coming from the West? So bringing those things together and talk about, okay, Islam and feminism, and also see all of this from a decolonial perspective and also to understand why it is so important to say this word feminist when you talk, like, why the term feminist and why also a lot of other communities say, okay, we don't want to talk about feminists, we want to talk about womanism, sisterhood or other wordings where they really refuse the word feminism was very interesting for me for my research to also see okay which other concepts are here and at the end what is the aim of all of this. So therefore I grew up working a lot with with these topics in community work to empower women, empower young Muslim women and to very, very different ways. And that's really all of what I wanted to explain you today because I'm very, very excited to have those two wonderful speakers who exactly will talk about this, Lana about the term Islamic feminism, about all of this understanding of Islamic feminism, and Shanila about also the work with women, work with communities, and also a lot of engagement work and encouragement work. So therefore, they will really, I think they will summarize all of these things I was doing in my past and all the things I'm doing now. So I want to really give a small introduction about those scholars and you can also read about them at the homepage from Das Kollektief. Dr. Lana Siri is an assistant professor in gender and religion at the Center of Gender and Diversity at the Maast University in the Netherlands. She completed her PhD studies at the Centre of Transdisciplinary Gender Studies at the Humboldt University of Germany in 2017. Her research lies at the intersection of religion and gender, and the criticality explores Islamic feminism through empathising this historical development and its diverse theoretical framework and methodologies. Islamic Feminism Truth, Empathizing This Historical Development and Its Diverse Theoretical Framework and Methodologies. And Lana has published on this topic Islamic Feminism and Muslim Feminist Thought also a book Einführung in den Islamischen Feminismus, which I have here because I work with it a lot for my master disease. It's a very good book. And she completed also, yeah, and this book is also a very good book also for non-academical because she summarized a lot of different topics also from German-speaking activists. And Lana is an associated expert at the Center of Intersectional Justice and is the co-founder of Berlin Muslim Feminist Group and the Black and POC academic network in Germany. Welcome, Lana. She will talk with us about Islamic feminist challenges, consistence and decoloniality shortly. And I will introduce also our second speaker today, Professor Dr. Chila Khurjamulji. She is Assistant Professor at Gender, Sexuality, and Women's Studies at the Borden College. She is an interdisciplinary scholar working at the intersections of feminist theory, cultural studies, and Islamic studies. Her research interests include Muslim girlshood, masculinities, and sovereignty, and Ismailia Muslim women's history. And she investigated these topics empirically in the relation to Muslims in Pakistan, the United States and Canada. And Professor Khordamolji is the author of the award-winning book, For the Ideal Educated Girl, the Production and Desirable Subjects in the Muslim South Asia the production and desirable subjects in the muslims those asia sorry i don't have this book here but it's ordered so maybe next workshop i will have it and the book combines the historical cultural studies analyzes with ethnographically work to examine the figures of educated girls in colonial india and post-colonial Pakistan. And her topic will be enacting the decolonial praxis in teacher training, lessons learned from Pakistan. Thank you very much, Professor Shenila. And yes, Professor Shenila will not be in video personal with us, but we will have a video from her and she's hearing everything and she will join us with audio but yes her lecture will be as a video and then you can refer to it later and she's with us in audio you can talk with her also all the time so yeah let's not talk long from my side I will give the stage to Lana. Thank you very much, Lana, and the stage is yours. Thank you very much. Good evening and salamu alaikum. First I wish Eid Mubarak, Gezegnesis of the Fest for those who are celebrating Eid. Thank you very much for this collective for inviting me and having me to be part of this really wonderful program and thank you Esma for your kind introduction. I'm very happy to spend the second day of OpfaFest here with you. Before we start our, before I start my part, maybe we can watch like it is very short, like a two minute video by Asma Lamrabat. Asma Lamrabat is a Moroccan Islamic feminist scholar, director of the Women and Gender Studies in Rabat, Morocco. Rabat Maroko. And she very briefly kind of highlights the main idea of Islamic feminism or the Islamic feminist movement. We will watch it very short. It's a two minute video and then we will come back to the lecture. So video up, Peter. Être musulmane aujourd'hui, être femme musulmane, c'est vraiment très, très difficile. Mais je pense qu'actuellement, il y a une nouvelle tendance d'être femme musulmane. C'est celle que j'appelle celle de la troisième voie, qui essaie de trouver un chemin conciliant entre justement la tradition et la modernité. Il y a des mouvements à travers le monde entier, aujourd'hui aussi bien en Occident que dans les pays arabo-musulmans, des femmes qui vont commencer à questionner les textes et à questionner cette interprétation patriarcale et se dire pourquoi il n'est pas une contradiction, c'est bien plus. C'est aujourd'hui un outil et un moyen pour solutionner un grand nombre de problèmes que vivent les sociétés arabo-musulmanes. Respecter la création, respecter l'environnement, respecter l'écosystème est quelque chose qui est inhérent à la foi. Quand on ne respecte pas l'environnement où on est, on ne peut pas respecter la création et la responsabilité que Dieu nous a données sur Terre. Ce qui est essentiel à savoir, c'est que dans cette troisième voie réformiste, What is essential to know is that in this third reformist voice, feminists want to show that there is no incompatibility between a reformist Islam and human rights, the rights of women. Thank you, you can stop the video. Yes, thank you very much. I think this two-minute video really highlights the main issues in Islamic feminism. Asma Al-Amrabet talks about this third way, which it will come up in our talk and probably also in the discussion, emphasizing the idea of knowledge, creating new knowledge. But I find it very interesting to see also that Islamic feminism is not just about bringing a new interpretation that ameliorate women's conditions, but like she's talking about eco-feminism, about environment, environmental issues. So Islamic feminism encompasses like really wider issues of discrimination, racism, environmental issues and so on. I'll share my screen with you. I'll share my screen with you. So the title of the lecture is Islamic feminism challenges, contestations and decoloniality. What I'll do in this lecture is that I will debunk the myth of the incompatibility of feminism and religion. I'll present the challenges that Islamic feminism faces and I will discuss some new approaches to gender equality that are currently being discussed among scholars of Islam and feminism. The oppression of women is a part of the development of Islam historically as pre-Islamic practices that discriminated against women became incorporated into Muslim society. However, it's very important to emphasize that misogyny, inequality and patriarchy have often been justified by Muslims as Islamic. As a result, some ask if Islam and the Quran are inherently oppressive to women. Defining Islam, by defining I mean rereading and trying to achieve a new interpretations of Islam and by Islam I also mean the main texts of the Quran and the Sunnah and the Hadith as well. Sorry for those for the interpreter, so the Quran is the holy text of Islam. The Sunnah is the deeds of the prophet Muhammad alayhi salatu wasalam. And the Hadith is the narration about the prophet. So those are kind of the main corpus for achieving new knowledge. Defining Islam allows Islamic feminist to disentangle misogyny as it is practiced by Muslims from normative theology itself. The fact that the particular religious laws that govern many Muslim majority societies vary from one country to another implies that they are not absolute and fixed, at least in interpretation, but rather culturally derived and open to multiple influences. Therefore, Islamic feminists claim that Islam must be distinguished from the diversity of social customs of Muslim cultures. And the authenticity of any one practice or belief must be judged based on fidelity to the Quran and the Sunnah. Islamic feminism operates from a position of faith where there is a strong belief in justice and gender equality in sacred texts, mainly the Quran. sacred text, mainly the Quran. This is an important point to emphasize because the way we usually understand feminism, often as anti-religious. And when feminist approaches in the religious sphere, often they often when they are welcomed or acknowledged among this mainstream Western feminism, they are often marginalized or limited to just a resistance as if they are burdened with resistance from within and don't see the whole methodology and approaches of Islamic feminism. I'll explain this point a bit later. So, and from this position of faith, it means that those Islamic feminists are not rejecting the Quran, are not rejecting Islam. They are trying to ameliorate their situation. And like we saw in the video, dealing with so many different issues that are relevant for us in 21st century from within the Quran, from within this faith position. Because there is a strong belief in justice and gender equality in sacred texts, like I said, mainly the Quran. mainly the Quran. So far, there is no one theory of Islamic feminism, but there are many different definitions for Islamic feminism or scholars that try to define what is this Islamic feminism. One of them is that Islamic feminism is a feminist discourse and practice articulated within an Islamic paradigm. It derives its understanding and mandate from the Quran and seeks rights and justice for women and for men in the totality of their existence. Like I said, it's coming from this position of faith. A faith-based position of Islamic feminism is a discourse on women and gender which elucidates the message of gender equality and social justice as located within an egalitarian reading of Islam. Working from within an Islamic paradigm means working from within an Islamic position. In other words, identifying as a Muslim and also working within Islamic texts, the Quran, Sunnah and the Hadith. Scholars who operate in this framework adopt a secular position, not a secularist. There is a difference between the secular and the secularist. While the secularist is a position that rejects the Quran or reject religion. Secular meaning opening the possibility for new discourses from within religion, from within the Quran. Islamic feminists focus on exegesis and challenge the male authority of the interpretation of sacred texts. So they don't challenge the text itself. They challenge the male authority on the interpretation of the text. The works of feminist tafsir, tafsir is the interpretation of Quran, theology in a way, share the aim of advocating the full personhood and moral agency of all Muslims within the framework of the Quran, which they treat as God's revelation, and to which they attribute the principle of the equality of all human beings, male and female. Scholars of Islamic feminism base their work on the Islamic belief that each individual Muslim can grasp the meaning of the sacred texts, thereby not accepting all interpretations unquestioned. They build on old and new methods to study Islam and exegesis. These scholars argue that it is human limitations rather than the text itself that hinder the application of Islam with gender gender equality. They employ tools of ishtihad. Ishtihad is put simply like the independent reasoning and tafsir, religious interpretation or interpretation of religious texts, and ground their call for gender equality by reference to the to sacred texts mainly and exclusively. They do so in order to gain legitimacy and authenticity in challenging existing interpretation. Now this point of gaining legitimacy and authenticity is very important. I will not elaborate on it here, but it will come in Shanila's lecture later on, where the historical, the colonial history of many Muslim majority prevented in a way for women's calls to be seen as coming from the Islamic culture and be seen as or identified as a Western invention or a Western imitation. Imitation, sorry. So we will come back to this. It will be emphasized in chanela's lecture and we can discuss it together. Islamic feminist use three main metal methodological approaches to come with new interpretation of the Quran I will briefly describe these three approaches, the historical contextualization method, the intertextual method, and the Tawheedic paradigm. Of course, each method is a very elaborated scholarship. One important point to emphasize is that Islamic feminists did not invent those methods. Those methods existed already in early Islamic scholarship, so they take those old methodologies and old approaches to come with new interpretation. So the historical contextualization method. So the historical contextualization method. Here, the analysis, they analyze the historical, the social, political context of the early Muslim community and in which a certain revelation took place. So they ask questions of who was in power? What were the urgent struggles that Muslims were dealing with? How were the intra and interrelations between Muslims and non-Muslims? So according to this approach, the Quran was in a way a reaction and an answer of the divine God to humans, which is the early Muslim community. By this way, they challenged the idea that the interpretation of the Quran should be considered static and unchangeable. Islamic feminists exegesis want to apply the text to today's reality. This is why it's important to ask what happened in the past and why a certain revelation was revealed and to be able to apply it for today. The intertextual method, this approach views the Quran as a cohesive text. For example, if a word that might have a misogynist interpretation appears, the scholars will examine not only this specific verse, rather they will read the entire surah, chapter of the Quran, and analyze where, how often, and in which text a certain word appears in the Quran. Sorry. I'm sorry, I caught some kind of a virus from my child. So by doing so, they question an interpretation that is given to one specific they follow this idea, this, the belief that the Quran has a certain holistic message. That it's important to look at the holistic message and not just the specific word in a specific ayah, sorry, verse of the Quran. The third method, Tawheedic paradigm, this approach focuses on the incompatibility and supremacy of God. Islamic feminist scholars focus on the qualities and adjectives given to God. I'm really sorry, just a second. Sorry. This approach focuses on the incompatibility and supremacy of the Quran. And they look at the adjectives given to God, such as merciful, forgiving, loving in order to overcome instances of injustice. They object the idea that God would sanction injustice, oppression and violence toward them. Now this is just of course briefly the explanation of these three main methods for Islamic feminism. Islamic feminism has been successful in many cases where through a new feminist interpretation of Quran, women were able to change laws that directly affect them. Most of the examples, of course, come from Morocco and Tunisia, where we saw that together with secular activists, Islamic feminist activists and scholars, women were able to change laws that directly affected them from inheritance to a child custody and other issues that affect them. The latest change was, which I find a very interesting example, in Tunisia three years ago by now, they were able to change the law that prevent Muslim women from marrying non-Muslim and non-Muslim men, which I find it interesting because this new change in the Muslim majority society actually affects us Muslims who are living in Europe more than it affects them. Just thinking statistically, what are the chances that a Muslim Tunisian woman, that she will meet a non-Muslim man and marry him? And what are the chances for me as a Muslim woman living in Europe to meet a non-Muslim man, fall in love and marry? So it's very interesting to see how changes there are actually affecting us here, which also in a way changes this entire idea that feminism here in Europe is what influence feminists there in the periphery, in the non-Western region. And as if like everyone else need to follow this Western feminism. And here we see actually the contrary. It's changes that are happening there that Muslim women are doing there in their Muslim majority societies will actually benefit us, the Muslim minorities here in Europe. We see that the realm of Islamic feminism is not limited to a feminist or women-friendly interpretation of the Quran. As we can see from this quote by Saadiya Sheikh, the Quran. As we can see from this quote by Saadiya Sheikh, a South African Islamic feminist scholar, Sheikh says, Islamic feminism includes a critical awareness of the structural marginalization of women in society and engaging in activities directed at transforming gender power relations in order to strive for a society that facilitates human wholeness for all based on principles of gender justice, human equality and freedom from structural oppression. or scholarly position that often seeks to contextualize what has been considered as Islamic gender norms to suggest the historical contingency and cultural constructions of these norms. This approach of Islamic feminism moves beyond searching for gender equality and justice in the Quran and challenges the power relations in which men gained and maintained the power and authority in Muslim society. For example, in her work, Fatima Mernissi, Moroccan scholar, feminist activist. Fatima Mernissi demystifies history and shows that it has been a male narrative. She considers historical truth as a partial and relative construction involving power relations. History, Mernissi argues, is a narrative to which one can legitimately juxtapose another narrative. History is not an innocent transcription of events or a value-free repository of truth. Her work subverts the truth claim of androcentric Muslim historians and shows their participation in the construction of a selective male memory. Muslim history is a narrative rather than a pure chronicle of facts written by male elite and in this sense cannot but be partial and biased. For example, her book, the forgotten queen of Islam, she brings all those female figures from early Islam or from the early Islamic history. She shows those figures that had roles of leaders or in different positions as scholars, as Islamic scholars, as fighters, as part of the prophet's companionship. as part of the prophet's companionship. And these figures somehow, somehow, just disappeared from history books. And she goes back to those archives to track those figures, to bring them back to life in a way. Islamic feminism engages in a critical reading of history that aims to remove the discussion on women and political power from the realm of the sacred, meaning the private sphere, and to show that the conflict of women and power in Islam is constructed rather than natural or divine. Beyond the contestation of male interpretation of Quran constructed rather than natural or divine. Beyond the contestation of male interpretation of Quran and the contestation of gender power relation in Muslim societies, so that's one challenge of Islamic feminists, their marginalization from within their societies. Islamic feminism faces yet another challenge, the Western feminist neo-orientalist discourse. Mainstream Western feminism has long had difficulties in engaging with women who are religious. On the one hand, it is argued that religion is an inherently patriarchal institution that by nature excludes women and render them unequal to women. On the other hand, many women see themselves as feminist and as religious, thus raising important questions about whether feminism, and here feminism, I mean the mainstream white Western feminism, has conceptualized religion too simplistically. Moreover, Islamic feminists criticize the marginalization of Muslim women from the international discourse on gender equality. While they acknowledge that Muslim women in many parts of the world experience oppression and marginalization that is justified in the name of Islam, Islamic feminists argue that gender discourses in contemporary Islam are prefigured by the history of a political conflict between Islam and Christianity, the European colonial encounters in different parts of the Muslim world, and the nationalist responses by colonized peoples. Shanila will come back to this point in in her example in her work, she will highlight or make this connection a bit more clear on how this colonial past actually influence how we how we deal with gender issues today. we deal with gender issues today. Many Muslims in this case view contemporary Euro-American feminist approaches that reinforce reductionist view of Islam as a peculiarly sexist religion as part of the broader Western enterprise to discredit and misrepresent Islam. And this we see, for example, in the work of Palestinian American scholar Lila Abu-Lughod on her work on war on terror. We see how she highlights the idea that American feminist movements and organizations were actually supporting the American invasion of Afghanistan, killing women and children along the way in the name of feminism. Many Muslims and non-Muslims such as as Black feminism, have argued that while the genesis and historical development of Western feminism primarily reflected Eurocentric realities, Euro-American feminists regularly assumed that they could speak for the experiences of all women. The key critiques offered by Islamic feminist scholars reflect the conceptual difficulties and ideological biases experienced by many groups of Muslims with regard to certain development in Western feminism. The critique particularly relates to questions of cultural hierarchy and representation. So the idea that first world women have often been used as the superior norms against which third world and non-Western women are measured. And the idea that the homogenization of women within dominant Western feminist paradigm relate to the construction of women as a priori victims and powerless. This approach does not examine particular material conditions and ideological frameworks that generate a certain context of disempowerment for a specific group of women. And this actually the second approach, the homogenization of women and constructing them as victims and powerless, that's basically what brought me to engage in Islamic feminism. I remember that was already now 12, 13 years ago when I came to Germany to study gender studies. And often I was the only Muslim person in class or the only person of color in class. And like every few years, the headscarf debate pop up in Germany and in Europe, of course. And I remember like sitting in a class full of surrounded by white German students who all want to go and save the Muslim woman. And I was just sitting there and thinking, who is this Muslim woman that they want to save? Like if if they knew my mom who wear the headscarf, who is a religious woman who practice Islam, if you knew her, like, you know that you need to be saved from her and not save her. So it was really, it made me think, okay, I need to find out who is this Muslim woman that they are talking about. Again, Islamic feminist, and of course I acknowledge that there is a lot of injustice in Muslim majority societies caused in the name of Islam, that I'm not denying it. It's just the homogenization of all Muslims and already seeing them as victims who lack agency, that was something that didn't fit with my own reality. So what we see in the field of Islamic feminism is that Muslims with feminist commitments need to navigate between being critical of sexist interpretations of Islam and patriarchy in the religious communities while simultaneously criticizing neo-colonial feminist discourses on Islam. criticizing neo-colonial feminist discourses on Islam. Sorry. Creating an alternate space, and here I go back to the video of Asma al-Amrabat talking about the third way, creating an alternate space for the articulation of Islamic feminism that resist both patriarchal fundamentalism and secular Islamophobia or neo-orientalist Western feminism is a contemporary challenge for Muslim women negotiating the complex epistemological and ontological turn of race, ethnicity, religion, and gender. religion and gender. Now looking at the program that you had this week, so you did engage with intersectionality, so it will be very interesting after Shanila's talk to see how we can understand Islamic feminism within intersectionality, or how can we use intersectionality as a way to understand the struggle of Islamic feminism. But I'll leave this for the discussion later. Looking at the time, I will skip this part. I will skip this part. I will, I wanted to talk about like briefly kind of contrasting Simone de Beauvoir, the in a way, Western feminist that you cannot write a gender, a paper in gender studies without bringing up Simone de Beauvoir and her, the other sex and the work of Amina Wadud, African American Islamic feminist. Just briefly, I'll skip this part, but briefly I'll say that while Simone de Beauvoir looks at biological inferiority as a reason for gender inequality, Amina Wadud talks about hermeneutical explanation and not biological issues in Islam that are the reason for gender inequality. But I think we will skip this part, sorry. So, I want to discuss as a last point, criticism that is currently taking place within the Islamic feminist space or within scholars of Islamic feminism. And that's about the need for a revision of gender equality. And here I will mainly refer to the work of Aisha Hidayatullah from the U.S. with her really interesting work, her book titled Feminist Edges of the Quran. The question of how to consolidate our own contemporary sense of justice with a sacred text that was revealed in seventh century Arabia leads us to a criticism of Islamic feminism or criticism of the lack of a revision of the concept gender equality. The criticism is that in their prescriptive approach that aims to promote gender equality as something that is embedded in the Quran, if you remember what I said at the beginning that Islamic feminists come from this faith-based position where they see their rights embedded in the Quran. And as normative to it, Islamic feminists subject themselves to a prescriptive approach. So in a way that they are prescribing those values of gender equality to the Quran. Therefore, they do not see that what they are doing is methodologically similar to pre-modern Islamic scholars who posed their point of view and interpretation as truth. This approach refutes any idea of inegalitarian discourse in the Quran. Hidayatullah emphasizes the idea that if scholars want to revisit the notion of gender equality in the Quran, honestly, they should be aware that the outcome might not support their claim and the results might contradict their understanding of gender equality. Otherwise, we are no longer asking an honest question, but rather beginning with an a priori answer that requires a retrospective explanation already bounded by the limits of that answer we must be willing to face all possible answers even the most painful and feared one in other words we must words we must be willing to be wrong about the hypothesis that the quran support our notion of gender equality. So what Aisha Hidayatullah is saying that how can we come and come to the text, come to the Quran and try to justify or claim for gender equality when this concept of gender equality did not exist in seventh century Arabia when the Quran was revealed or it wasn't understood this way. So how can we approach the Quran with these concepts? And this is exactly like what Islamic feminists were criticizing male authority or interpretation of the Quran, claiming that male scholars come with their own views gender equality so when I approach the text I already have those the the briller the the glasses of of gender equality and I impose it on the Quran. Now this is a very delicate in a way question because Hidayatullah and other scholars asked, like, then what happens if I take those glasses of gender equality off and I approach the text, but I don't find it there? What does it mean for me as a Muslim, for me who want to stay Muslim, who still believes in God and in the Quran. These are questions that Islamic feminists are not inventing. Those are all questions that existed as early as the revelation of the Quran, as early as the birth of Islam. revelation of the Quran as early as the birth of Islam. I will not enter into like the many kind of different philosophies on this idea, but one of them is the idea is that the individual conscience way more than the text, way more than the Quran. But that's a very simplistic way of putting it. Again, those are discussions that existed as early as the birth of Islam. And I think what is beautiful now is that Hidayatullah by criticizing other Islamic feminists, she, like other scholars and activists, are bringing back those discussions, those questions, those engagements that took place in the past but somehow disappeared from the general mainstream discourse in Muslim majority societies. They are bringing those questions back, forcing us scholars, activists, people, those who just grew up in Muslim majority societies to ask those questions and to try to find answers that would suit us living in 21st century. I will stop here. And I look forward to hearing Shanila's lecture and to our discussion after that. Thank you very much. I'll stop sharing my screen. Because so, yeah, you hear more about it. And then, yeah, so I'm very, very happy about the question part and the part.