Einen wunderschönen Nachmittag. Danke, dass ihr euch Zeit genommen habt, an diesen auch schönen Freitagnachmittag ins OKADEC zu kommen, zur Buchpräsentation Cinema Afrika, Agiving, Resistance and Freedom. Herausgegeben, also wir haben es publiziert, wir sind Chapeau, editiert haben es die wunderbaren Damen Sandra Kampelhuber und Nadia Denton. Einen herzlichen Applaus. Ich muss gestehen, ich bin so mega stolz drauf. Wir hatten letztes Jahr das erste Cinema Afrika hier im Movimento, ebenfalls kuratiert von Sandra Kampelhuber und Nadia Denton. afrikanisches Kino oder Kino der afrikanischen Diaspora nach Linz zu holen. Und damit das eben nicht verpufft und es bestehen bleibt, haben sie eben dieses Buch herausgegeben. Es sind sieben Beiträge, um eben die Vielfalt, die Diversität, das Storytelling darzustellen. Und ich kann gar nicht so viel verraten, weil ich habe es ja nicht kuratiert. Die zwei schlauen Damen werden mehr darüber berichten. Vielen, vielen Dank für eure Arbeit, euer Engagement, euer Schweiß, euer Blut und die feministische Perspektive, die da wirklich durchdringt und die Liebe zu Afrika und zur afrikanischen Diaspora. Dankeschön. A very warm welcome to the second edition of Cinema Africa and to our book launch Cinema archiving resistance and freedom. First of all I want to thank our funders Stadt Linz Kultur and das Frauenbüro der Stadt Linz. Herzlich willkommen an die Frauenbeauftragte Abina-Kathi Pina. Dankeschön fürs Kommen. And we are also very grateful to Landeskultur GmbH for supporting us with this space. I'm thrilled to be here today with Nadia Denton from London and also with as Marie-Edwige already mentioned it we co-created the book and we have a special guest today Alicete Olukomoche from Johannesburg South Africa. She's one of the authors of the book. And yes, a very big thank you also to Chapo for giving us the trust in making this book and leaving us the freedom to do what we thought is best. So thank you and I hand it over to you, Nadia. So thank you so much for having me it's always a pleasure to travel from London and to come to Austria to be in Linz. I'm really excited about the birth of this book and all that it represents in terms of voices that speak to the African feminine and developments within African cinema. You are all of our guests, obviously, today as part of this launch. And so I hope that we can have a conversation like family. Obviously, we will lead the discussion, but we want you all to benefit and to contribute and to ask us questions and to provoke us as part of our discussion. So please feel welcome. Please feel free. We will talk after we show some introductory videos. My name is Petranche and I'm responsible for art education and community curating at O'Carline's space dedicated to contemporary art. So please feel free to visit our exhibitions after the event, just grab a sticker at the ticket desk downstairs. We currently representing young artists from different African countries who bring the colonial perspectives into their work and an Austrian artist who explores ideas of energy and warmth connected with women. Yeah, so the exhibitions are open until 6 p.m. and we are really happy you are here wish you and enjoy able and inspiring event thank you Thank you and now as Nadia mentioned we will see some two Introductionary videos from two of the authors of the book the first one is by Musa Sen Abza and the second one by Estrella Sandra hello my name is Musa Sen Abza and the second one by Estrella Sintra. Hello, my name is Musa Senabsa. I'm a filmmaker from Senegal. I just wanted to introduce the text I wrote regarding this book, fantastic idea of books. For me, filmmaking is more about storytelling but also the fundamentals of a human being. I say that I wanted just to tell you how I came to filmmaking. I came to filmmaking because I always wanted to tell stories. I come from a storyteller family, Grio family, where music and storytelling are linked together. Because also I had aunts and my mom and my uncles were playing music and were always singing. And all these songs are weaved through narratives that highlight the life of women, especially. the life of women, especially. So that's why I did this trilogy, Women's Destiny, that, of course, I think is one of my body of work that is really relevant. Filmmaking is extremely important, not only as a soft power, but it's about the soul of the people. It's about the vision of the people. It's about the way people are linked together. It's the mirror of the society. And I think that it's very important to write about it and to tell people how important storytelling is. Thank you. Hello, I hope you're having a wonderful festival. I wish I could be there with you. I am the co-author, along with my dear friend and colleague Laura, of an interview with the Burkina Faso multifaceted artist and filmmaker Aisha Chloe BoroughAfrican Film and Television Festival of Ouagadougou, also known as FESPACO. I had always dreamt of attending this festival, a sort of legend and mecca of African cinema, and this dream came true actually last year when I travelled from Senegal to Burkina in the best company, Laura. The trip and experience were simply magical. As we were there, we were wondering what it meant for people in the country to be filmmakers and we also realised that women were not sufficiently represented. As we walked around the Place des Cinéastes with statutes of all the winners of the most prestigious award at the festival, which is the Golden Stallion, we noticed that there was not a single woman there, which meant that since 1969, when the festival was born, no woman had ever won the award. Aïcha Chloé Gouraud was at FPACO actually in 2025 with her latest film when we were there Les Invertueuses which could be translated as The Invertuous Woman and it's an old well it's a bold ode to freedom and her first fiction after having made already five documentary films. What you will find in the book is a deeply inspiring conversation about her views on cinema and how she first came to encounter it and felt that it was her duty to tell stories, to make films, because she feels as if the subjects of her stories were the ones who found her. Without intending to give any spoilers, I will just say that she describes her work as a cinema of the heart and the truth, where she's often the witness of the pressing social issues in her country, Burkina Faso, and it's also a cinema of memory, a cinema of imprint that wants to leave a trace. I hope you enjoyed reading it as much as I enjoyed and we enjoyed listening to her. Thank you so much for listening, have a good festival, bye! So it's for me it's really a huge pleasure to be here today to present our anthology and this project is very close to my heart, I could say to our hearts. Personally, as a filmmaker and festival curator, I've always been drawn to stories that reveal narratives very often or too often overlooked by the Eurocentric lens. With Cinema Afrika, with the festival and this book, we wanted to create a space where these stories could be heard and critically engaged with. And I personally, we see film and the book as bridge. It connects the visual and the written word. Our motivation behind the book comes directly from initiating the festival Cinema Africa here in Linz, because from the very beginning, the festival was much more than just screening films, but also to create conversations and dialogue and to build networks. Networks that transcend geographic, linguistic and cultural boundaries. So the anthology, the book, is an extension of that vision, like a document that shows the incredible diversity of voices that we encountered. And working on this anthology has been a profoundly collaborative process. First and foremost with my co-editor Nadia Denton. The work together was truly incredible. We did not fight even once. Nothing. Nothing. Not even one. Fantastic. And without you this publication would not have been possible. Maybe it would have been possible, but it would not have been as good as it is. We also had the privilege to engage with remarkable filmmakers and writers, both established and emerging persons. Our authors who generally shared their insights and reflections and stories with us. And one of our core ideas behind this project was to highlight the importance of narrative. Who gets to tell stories? Whose perspectives are centered, and how can these stories challenge dominant narratives. And I think we succeeded with this vision and with this idea. So the book shows that cinema is not only art, which is already very important, but it's also a tool for questioning, imagining and transforming the world. And to link literature and the festival experience with this link, I would say films invite us to see through someone else's eyes and challenge the way how we see our own lives. And with the written word, with the book, it's kind of a reflection of the same ideas, but we can dig deeper in reading those articles so we hope that our readers get inspired and motivated to think critically about representation memory and freedom thank Thank you. Thank you so much, Sandra. And yes, I have to admit that I think in recent years, this has been one of the most ethically and creatively enjoyable projects I've worked on because we were able to give the contributors a space to be themselves and to speak in their true voice. And I think the results we got in terms of their contributions and their essays show the integrity that went into the project. And I say integrity because I think a lot of us who do work in the film industry understand that our industry is under a lot of threats, whether it's technology and AI. Obviously we always have the threats of the big studios from Hollywood and just this sort of overwhelming threat of commercialization of our industry and a lack of space to be able to experiment and to appreciate artistic forms for what they are as opposed to their commercial output and how many likes or shares they've had on social media etc so I think what we have done in some senses is really profound being able to put out this offering at a time when funding restrictions and funding reductions mean that there isn't a lot of space for independent voices and for emerging voices and for narratives that we don't hear a lot. I also have been reflecting on the essays and the purpose of the book and I think it's fair to say that in our industry as curators and filmmakers we don't get a lot of time to publicly talk about our work you know it's either press appearances or the red carpet or a Q&A after the screening we don't get much space to analyze and to reflect intellectually about ideas and thoughts that we have that may not directly relate to a film that we're making, but are important in terms of our aesthetics and our point of view about filmmaking. And so I think that the book is really special because it's given this space for filmmakers to express thoughts and ideas about their creative practice that normally as an industry, we don't really have space for except maybe in academia. And even in academia, that isn't always accessible to the public. I think the other thing that's really important is that the book is accessible in terms of the language we've used and the references and the way that people can engage with it. We didn't write this book to be intellectually or academically, you know, making arguments to the audience. We wanted to offer them essays and personal pieces that could meet them at the level that they're at in terms of just understanding the themes and arguments and ideas that the contributors wanted to put forward without it being about showing off in terms of having a certain kind of knowledge. So I think there's a truth and an authenticity that shines through in the presentations which I think is really important. It's also great that we are able to make the book accessible for free both in the hard copy form and digital. I am a big believer in giving access to people to enabling content creators, filmmakers and just members of the public whether here in Austria, other parts of Europe or other parts of the world to be able to access this book and it's great that because of the local funding we are able to do that and I think this is going to be one of the important elements of the legacy of the book so those are just some initial thoughts that I have in terms of why I think the book is important and what I think you'll get from it I'll probably come back and talk about my specific chapters but I'm just going to hand over to my colleague Lisseti to say a few words. Sure, good morning, oh it's not morning, good afternoon. My name is Lisseti Belukomoche and I'm based in Johannesburg. I program films for festivals, I've co-produced podcasts, I also work for a Women's Literature Festival and I've just started representing women authors so that's like a snippet of what I do. I want to start off actually by thanking Sandra and Nadia because it was the first time I got to actually reflect on my process. So as a programmer, I do my work in my head and in an insular manner. But to be able to actually sit and write and think about what my process is, put it into words, put it out there, was something that was very special. Yeah, so I look forward to the conversation. I look forward to any questions that you may have, and I will answer to the best of my ability, but thank you guys for coming. So Sandra, I wanted to find out a bit more from you in terms of the role of the voice of the feminine because that's something that's been very important in your work your films obviously the festival and with this book why do you feel the voice of the feminine is so important at this time and why has that been like a real driver and a motivator for you well as a woman myself i can't do other it comes naturally i mean funny thing about the book is it was not now we have like we have seven contributions six are from women. No, yeah, six. You did two, but you interviewed people, so it's even more women. It was not planned like that. It was planned to have one chapter focusing on feminism in film, but then through our process, we didn't even discuss it. We have now one wonderful man in the book, Musa Senopsis but that's it so I don't know how to answer this question it's it comes natural to me and it is important it is still important I think things are getting better but we are not there at the same level of equality so it's important to program, to give a special eye on programming, female, women directors and so on. But as I said, to me it comes like naturally. What about you, Lissati? What do you think is the importance of the feminine voice and particularly the African feminine voice? I think, I mean, from an African perspective and also the diaspora, things are split between the masculine and the feminine quite distinctly. So when women come to the forefront, there's a different ethic of care that comes in. There is a different eye I think there's also a bravery that's not necessarily seen in the everyday so there is an importance in the feminine coming forward especially within a context where all you hear from is the masculine and Sandra in terms of your like visioning of the book and the aims that you had, what would be some of your dreams of outcomes for the book? So feedback or things that people would say the book had done for them. What would be the things that you would really hope it would lead to? Well, I hope that as many people as possible are interested in reading it. And I think, as you already mentioned, it's really great that we can publish it online as well for free. And yeah, for people to get new insights, especially here in the West, people have still a wrong idea of Africa in general, but also of African film. So people are sometimes surprised on which high level the films are made, because they don't know. And it's not a lot of African films produced that have a cinema release there it's getting better and more but not enough so I hope that the book will add to change the perspective I agree and I think what I would add is that I'm very mindful that there are a lot of filmmakers operating whether in Europe or even on the African continent who feel quite isolated because maybe they have a creative lot of filmmakers operating whether in Europe or even on the African continent who feel quite isolated because maybe they have a creative approach or aesthetic approach that's not acceptable or that people don't understand and so they don't feel that they are part of the wider film industry because maybe they're not making commercial films or films that will go on to Netflix. And so my hope really is that those individuals who are isolated and maybe without a community of more creatively orientated, ethically minded film creatives, that they'll be able to find sources of inspiration from this book. And even just those who are having challenges in their filmmaking careers or even wider creative careers and are able to read some of their inspirations and you know the experiences of our contributors that that will give them some motivation and give them a feeling that they can continue and they can you know aspire to be in the industry and so Lasedi I wanted to hand over to you really at this segment of the talk Lasedi is just going to tell us a little bit about her experience as a curator and individual who runs both film and literature film festivals and just experience of actually working on ground in this specific case in South Africa sure thank you I'm driven by the need to have people be more curious. So in the piece that I've written in here, it looks into the inextricable links between the African continent and Europe. So the idea that like the construct of Africa actually exists because of Europe historically. And when we're speaking about African storytelling and we're speaking about African storytelling and we're speaking about European storytelling, it's also important to have a foundation of the histories that make these things possible. In the piece that I've written here as a programmer, I look specifically at a time when I was head curator for the European Film Festival in South Africa. So it's the EU delegation that puts together festivals across the African continent, and the idea is to bring European films to an African audience. So in the year that I was head curator, I wanted to complicate this idea of what Europe is. So a lot of the films that I programmed were from first or second generation Europeans with parents who had parental roots outside of Europe. The balance of my own conviction and compromise, because as you can imagine, some of the EU heads of delegation were not pleased with the choices that I was trying to make, but I did win some. So as a programmer too, I have to try and balance where the funding is coming from to be like okay fine you're giving the money for this so maybe 40% of it we can negotiate but the other parts is what my own conviction is so in that year the idea was to say this purest notion of what Europe is is not a real story a purest notion of what Africa is is not a real story. A purist notion of what Africa is is also not a purist story because even legislatively on the African continent, our laws are based on colonial languages, how we dream in many cases are based on colonial languages. There's a short film that Nadia and Sandra programmed the other day where the main character speaks about how her grandfather dreams in Igbo and she dreams in English. So these are the complications of how we exist. On a personal level, I mean, my work is also driven by my own personal history. So my parents had to leave South Africa. My grandparents left South Africa in the 60s. So I'm born in a country that doesn't exist anymore. I was born in East Germany, lived in Iraq, in Baghdad with my granddad, lived in Canada, lived in Zambia, in South Africa. So even this idea that when you look at me, it's like, oh, she's from South Africa and she's a black person. What does it mean? Really? And it's interesting to look at the diversity even in the audience, right? Because I'm like, OK, I'm sitting in Austria. So a lot of my work, a lot of my work is to complicate some of these ideas and to inject curiosity for us to be able to ask questions of each other on a day-to-day level, for us to be able to actually look at the cinema that we watch and pay attention to the subtleties where like kind of the geopolitical plays out, whether it's in an item of clothing, whether it's in language, whether it's in an item of clothing whether it's in language whether it's in landscape so that's my interest from a book festival perspective i didn't have the intention of working as co-festival director on a literature festival but the woman who founded it her name is barbara masekela she used to be the chief of staff of Nelson Mandela she was our ambassador in the US in France and she wanted to have a literature festival specific for black African women on the continent in the diaspora she asked me if I'd work on it I said no and she said I'm not gonna take no for an answer and what do you do you listen to your elders it's called the Johannesburg festival of women writers so it's going into its fourth year with that I found kind of similarities in film so it's what do women of color on the continent and around the world write about right and how do you make that writing accessible to what Nadia is saying, we get funding from donations, it's free for women for children. We run workshops where you can get skills and storytelling, we look at translation from literature to cinema. So in everything that I do, I also try and weave in a story into what it is that's being produced. Yeah, did I answer your question? Was that a question? One of the things actually that I do want to say, because I took some time to actually read all the contributions between yesterday and this morning. Come on, spill, spill your critique. And every single contribution is saying the same thing in different ways, right? It's refusing to look at African cinema as a neat box and a neat connection. It's actually complicating what it is to be one thing. And that's one of the things that I got out of the book. And I want to not forget another thing that I noted down. So, oh, the other thing as well is archive is like a continuous flow. So the book is a living conversation and just as our identities shift and change, this is not trying to answer any kind of question but it's just saying let's continue speaking, let's continue exploring who we are, exploring who the other is and living in a continuous state of conversation and not being stuck in rigid little boxes. One of the things I wanted to find out from you was, in terms of your reading of the different contributions, was there anything that surprised you or that you weren't expecting to see amongst the chapters? Firstly, I think it was a bold move to open it with a man. I thought that was bold. And I'd said to Sandra that I loved the perspective, Musa's perspective, because he speaks about the feminine and he speaks about his own immersion in the feminine from his mother, his aunts, and how he also translates the film. So I thought that was a bold and important move. I think one of the others that stood out for me was Simis, speaks about queeness in Nigeria, and what I liked actually underlined a whole bunch of things because I can be a nerd sometimes too. And let me see this is right where she says I do not aim to illustrate, but to activate them as living provocations. So this idea that like, archive and representation is a living provocation. And I really love that just as an overall theme. And I think all the contributions speak to that. It's a provocation, you guys are provoking something. Fantastic. I did reference the fact that I would talk about the two chapters that I wrote for the book. One of them was an interview with a experimental video artist and artist called Anyeka Igwe. She recently released a book about the archivist June Giovanni, Dr. June Giovanni. June Giovanni is a luminary in terms of Pan-African cinema archiving and curation. She for over 40 years has championed African cinema, African diaspora cinema, and has set up very significant festivals and platforms. She has one of the most significant archives internationally that relate to Pan-African cinema. And so Anyeka in her book talks about the experience of spending time with June in the archive and how that affected her own sort of understanding of archive in terms of the way in which June keeps her archive. And so I was just really interested to probe this idea with Anjeka about what is a radical archive, because there tends to be a very specific way we think about an archive you know it's almost a bit like going into a library you know you go into a space um the material may or may not be very accessible um there's a sense of archives being very dry um and you know this idea that you have to wade through and work through a lot of materials, maybe to find something of value. So it was interesting to me to understand how Anyeka had worked through the archive with June. And what became apparent is that one of the elements of June's archive is the fact that she is there with the archive. You can engage with her. So she will talk to you about particular materials that she has and experiences. And that was particularly what was rich for Onyeka was this opportunity to spend time and to hear stories from June about the festivals and the activities that she'd been involved in and why there were certain materials in the archive. The other reason I was really keen to engage Onyeka is because she is a really significant artist who perhaps isn't given as much visibility as I think she deserves. She's someone who works with archive and with experimental forms. She's of a British Nigerian background and her work tends to pivot the experiences between those cultures and she's actually now got a small installation at the Tate Britain in the UK which will be on for a couple of months so she's a very dynamic filmmaker and artist who I think is on the ascent who is on the rise and I think her voice is one that is going to be quite interesting in the period to come. The backstory was that we wanted to really get June, we were desperately hoping that she would write a chapter but unfortunately she was too busy so our second best option was to be able to include Anyaka talking about June as part of the book. And then the other piece that I have written for the book is about my collaboration with my platform Beyond Nollywood and Nigeria based collective called the Surreal 16 Collective. Just for those of you who don't know, over 10 years ago I set up a platform called Beyond Nollywood, which was to showcase and promote the work of Nigerian and Nigerian diaspora filmmakers who were making alternative and new wave Nigerian cinema. So art house, documentary, alternative forms of Nigerian cinema that maybe weren't getting much attention in terms of like the mainstream Nollywood space and so over that period of time I curated a number of festivals and events and so on and so in the chapter I talk about the work that I did with this particular collective, the Surreal 16 Collective, and their successes as international filmmakers and how, as a curator based in Europe, pulling together African film programs, my work alongside them was quite important in terms of developing my thesis around Beyond Nollywood and being able to engage with audiences. So yeah, that's just a bit of a wrap up in terms of the two contributions that I specifically made. Actually, one of the ways that you speak about yourself in the piece on Beyond Nollywood, because I really liked it, is Nadia calls herself a combined curator and creative broker. And I really love that. Yes, so should we open the questions? Is anybody interested in asking a question? Something we did not answer? No? Well, I also have to... You look like you have a question. When you guys were talking, I was wondering what actually drives you because you were talking about all the difficulties about being seen, all of that. So what actually drives you? Then you actually kind of delved into it quickly but not extensively. So to all of you, basically, what drives you? What drives me? The importance of perspective and understanding. So I think a large chunk of my life has, I've had to explain myself a lot and explain the places I've been to, especially as a kid. And entering into programming specifically and also creative producing, I realized that story, at least for me, is one of the ways that can drive an understanding, drive a perspective, and in a world that's so polarized in terms of how we see each other, what we think of each other, the driving force for me is, I'm choosing my words very carefully. So just give me a second. Yeah, the driving force for me is a curiosity and it's understanding that we might live within borders, but how we communicate, how we see each other, how we're linked is effectively borderless so I think that's my my driving force and it's absolutely selfish because it is based on my personal experience and my familial life yeah I think I think what drives me and I it's something that Musa talks about in his essay, is how film has been a source of escape, but also ways that I've been able to find myself. And sometimes when I am ready to give up on the film industry or you know have a particular challenge and think no this is it I'll see something in a film and it pulls me back and so I think it's probably not even just film it's probably the wider visual arts I find that there is something that where I'm able to locate myself and kind of maybe have hope again in terms of things that might be happening in the world or humanity or just the ability for humans to create you know as as much as there can be things going on which can be wicked and terrible there's also a brilliance and a wonderfulness in terms of how people can create and how that can give a sense of hope and life. So what drives me? I mean, it's a big question. Huge. I think I'm a person who wishes for equal rights and justice. And in the past history now, never it does not exist and I think with my work I try to give some as you mentioned hope it's also for me it's my films it's a learning progress my own films curating programs seeing other films it's always it's a constant learning and also constantly having hope that are like-minded people and yeah, to, we can't set things straight, but we can try to give a little input. I think that's what drives me. And why the continent Africa, I don't know. It's just, I feel I'm spending a lot of time in Senegal. I feel at home there. So none of us are driven by money. Somebody else? Who would have guessed it? So my question will go to Najia Denton and Desi Tomoch. So my question is kind of, I used to ask a question because I don't have the answer. Then when I am with friends, sometimes I feel like those questions come up, but I don't have any answer. And I think if it was not people like Sandra, our story will not share or tell or have light. I think it's really important. And I don't know nothing about film. and I don't know nothing about film. So my question gonna be is like, how, why do you think the pers, like, how do you think the perspective of Sandra is important? And why? The why I ask this question, because Sandra is coming in the Western country and like she's going and running and working hard like places where like nobody goes and it doesn't mean that in Senegal we don't have filmmaker or reality actress or anything, but I believe that collaboration is very important. And yes, I'm just going to give that question to you. Maybe you could explain being an African and knowing what the continent, why her perspective is. Thank you. I hope I make myself understand. Yes. So I think the importance of Sandra's contributions as a filmmaker and a curator and a creative is that it's really important for African content creators on the continent to have allies in other parts of the world, whether it be in Europe or, you know, other places. And the opportunity to have a safe space to watch African film where it's cherished and where it's given a certain respect, I think is really important. The fact that Sandra will secure funding and will bring filmmakers to her festival to allow them to present their work or to meet audiences and to have the experience of showcasing in Austria is really significant and I say this because as I mentioned slightly earlier a lot of funding for independent film and festivals is being reduced, definitely in Europe and very significantly in the UK. Certainly in the UK, our African exhibition and distribution platforms have significantly diminished. We don't have as many African film festivals and events as we used to have a couple of years ago. So it's really important that we have these events as we have here in Austria with Cinema Africa to still support the industry and to show that there is a lifeline and that there is a reason why audiences should exist. I think the fact of creating a space where people can not just watch film but talk about it and to have an experience together is also really important. You know anyone can go to the cinema and just go in watch a film and leave but what's really important about a festival is the opportunity to bond, to have that emotional connection. And I think being able to meet the creatives and having that experience to engage with them on a personal level is what can be really transformational for audiences and for people who might be looking for something to inspire them or looking for signs in a very troubled world so i think in short you know the festival acts as a bit of a lifeline for the african film sector internationally but specifically for individuals it can be quite impactful um you know for the African filmmakers whose work has been showcased in terms of developments in their careers? There's a lot of things going through my mind all at the same time but I want to start by saying that unfortunately in many parts of the African continent it's very difficult for Africans to meet each other on the continent like there's so many barriers of entry as speaking as a South African who's living in South Africa as well access to cinema from other parts of the African continent is if I'm in North America, if I'm in Europe, meeting you know meeting you Tusa, sitting in Austria, it's unfortunately easier to collaborate when you're outside of the African continent in many contexts than it is when you're within the African continent. So that's the first part. The second part is again the ethic of care. So with Cinema Africana, one of the things that I love as well is there's an intention in the curation, there's an intention in the access as well, the access points to the cinema, the publication in relation to the book. It's very rare to find spaces that are also welcoming where you don't have to consistently explain your existence in a space. So that's also, I think, extremely important in the work that Sandra is doing. And I think lastly too, my desire would be to have similar spaces on the African continent where people can actually watch each other's films. That doesn't exist beyond Netflix and Netflix has a very specific aesthetic on what they want to show of Africa and Africans and specific to South Africa it's I'm not gonna say it but yeah there's a very specific aesthetic and intention that Netflix wants to be able to show. So I think spaces like this, and especially where these publications are going to be accessible for free, it means that more people on the continent actually can know what other people are doing on the same continent, can understand what is important to lucifone thinkers and filmmakers to francophone thinkers and filmmakers to anglophone filmmakers and thinkers so yeah i think that's the importance of platforms such as this it would be great for it to be accessible at scale right so not always in small niche settings, but I think that it exists is a step in the right direction. Anybody else? No? I wanted to use the opportunity also to thank our graphic designer. I mean, this book is also like a piece of art now he's hiding. A big thank you to Georg Lipitsch, Sink Studio, who did this fantastic design. And I also, I could add to your what you said about festivals. I have, maybe I'm wrong, but I have the feeling that European festivals focusing on Africa, you have more of a variety of the continent than at festivals on the continent itself. So if it's in a Francophone country, you mainly have the Francophone films from French-speaking countries, English-speaking countries have more the English-speaking films. French-speaking countries, English-speaking countries have more the English-speaking films and I have the feeling that on the continent this link is missing with the different countries and productions. I don't know if I'm wrong but that's how I feel. You're right, I mean there's festivals in South Africa, the Durban Film Festival that's been around for a very long time that does show a diversity of African films. There's the Joburg Film Festival that's been running for a bit. But the challenge is getting audiences. Into the cinemas and getting audiences to engage critically with it, and I mean, a lot of it. with it. And I mean, a lot of it is also can be blamed and inverted commas on the school system, not having visual literacy, because you can't just expect people to finish school and wake up and care about cinema of the world, and not just the commercial cinema, you know. And there's something that Musa says in his contribution where he says, African cinema is a cinema under control. It's a cinema that is a victim of capitalism. It is a dependent cinema, especially in Francophone Africa. But I think it's a dependent cinema across the board. So in Anglophone Africa and specific to South Africa, the sensibilities are mostly to lend themselves to like an American way of storytelling, right? So beautiful, shiny visuals, but then you're like, okay, where's the story? And then maybe in part of Francophone cinema, it's like storytelling is what drives it, even when it doesn't have the production value and the money in and around it. doesn't have the production value and the money in and around it. In Durban a couple of years ago, Musa was speaking about South African cinema, saying that it doesn't have its own anchor and it doesn't have its own voice and sensibility, right? It's still a mishmash of different sensibilities, almost like it's scared to say who it is and what it's about. So if maybe a final word, Nadia, if you like. Yeah, so I suppose my hope is that late in the night people will find a chapter to read, that they will find a sentence or a paragraph that will trigger something, give them an inspiration or an idea, that they will share copies of the book, whether it be the digital or hard copies, and that they will form their own little collectives or circles to develop different ideas and concepts similar to some of the ideas that have been shared within the book. I really do believe in this idea of collectives. I think as we go into an environment where there's less funding and we are battling against commercialization that we have to in small groups try to work together, share resources, share ideas. And I think that this book is a great example of that. So I really hope that it will be an inspiration and it will act as an example where other small groups of people can get together and create product and create art that can be shared for the betterment of all of us. So I think we, since it's coming out today the book, but we will definitely share on our website the information where it can be downloaded for free under www.cinema-africa.at and yeah now we have some copies over there if you want us to sign them we can do if not we are not mad at you and i want to thank you so much lic Lizitty, for flying over from Johannesburg, sitting with us here. It's just great. And Nadia, of course, my partner in crime. Thank you. I do have a question. Sorry. How many storytellers are here? Like how many good film, literature? Literature. Film? Literature? Literature. Literature. Okay, okay. And is everyone else outside of the arts? Is anyone else in the arts? Should I come around with a microphone and ask everybody? What industry is outside of the arts? You can just call them out. I'm just interested to know. Academia, okay. Psychotherapy. Oh. I hear a lot of stories. You hear, yeah. Okay, psychotherapy, academia. Fashion. Oh yes, of course fashion. Sciences, math. Psychology. Psychology, Okay, all right. I just wanted to know. Especially filmmakers could, producers of art and everything, we could need some psychology sometimes. Okay, no thank you. I was just curious who's in the audience. Thank you so much. Thank you Sandra, thank you. I was just curious who's in the audience. Thank you so much. Thank you, Sandra, and thank you, Nadia.