Hi everybody. Can you hear me okay? Good. My name is Viola Yip. Like Martin said, I come from a musical background. I'm a composer, performer, sound artist, instrument builder, and artistic researcher. I'll give you a brief idea how I see all these things work together in my head. When, if you ask me what I do, I like to tell you I'm an instrument builder, primarily thinking of how to build alternative instruments, particularly thinking alternative machines that use my specific body to play around the idea of compositions, sound arts, through improvisation, through building, through looking into materials and through the strategy, using the strategy of performance, how to sort of explore the nuance, the performativity of all these relationships, the relationships between media, materiality, space, the space between human and machine body, or human and non-human bodies, and technology, and presented in performance. In a way, for me, to performatively, playfully play around all these interrelationships. On the other hand, it's just fun to have a performance. So today I... Before getting into the thing, today my talk title is My Body as Transducer, Building Instruments for Transmedial Listening. In my artistic research, I place particular emphasis on the listening body as a transducer. In a way, it's fun because we work a lot, me, you, work a lot with speakers and microphones, and these are transducers. It's something that is so close to me. On the other hand, it's also very actual that when I conceive music, how to transduce these ideas to real world and how I use different sort of my body, different layers, different aspects of my body, just trying to transduce all these ideas and feelings and knowledge into a performance. I will get into that later. And I believe that the concept of music differs across genre, cultures and even over time and yet it depends on how listening bodies gather potentials, energies, forces and materials as music. In this particular, in my practice I investigate how my very specific listening body serves as a site for a chain of transductions for listening and how these transductions become a relay of transductions plays a major role in my transmedial listening in my instrument building and performing. So there are multiple layers of transductions that I perceive at the moment. The first and maybe most intuitive layer is to transducing the virtual. I was really interested in seeing just to acknowledge that there's a big virtual layer of music making when someone makes music or when someone learns music. When you close your eyes, you can hear your favorite song without actually hearing it. So I was really fascinated by this virtual layer of sound or virtual layer of, I would call it virtual layer of music. And at that time, as in 2009, around 16, 17, 18, 19, that was the time that I was really interested in exploring light as a musical medium, as my musical medium. I was very fascinated by how musical light is when I slowly turn them on and off. And when I think of music, I can actually somehow, that was one time, that was just me messing around with light bulbs and using dimmers and switches. And somehow I find something that when I engage with turning it on and off and turning them up and down, at the same time, looking at the quality of the light was really musical to me. And so that sort of got me interested in building an instrument for light. And so that led me to build this bubble. I call it bubble, a multi-channel electromechanical instrument for light and relays. It was a very simple setup. It was powered by Arduino, connected with relays, eight-channel relays. Each relay goes into one light bulb. And then I have a self-built capacitive controller that is connected to Arduino. And the controller looks like this. Copper tape, very thin. I was interested in two things at that time one is how how to translate these lights of course the most intuitive thing for for for doing it is just turning it on and off right but you don't need Arduino for that you You just buy a lot of switches. And so thinking, okay, how can a microcontroller, how can physical computing facilitate things that interest me? And that brought me back to my childhood when I remember I played too many piano pieces that when you play on the piano, it's very much like a one-to-one mapping system. When you press a note, you hear one note. However, when you have a microcontroller, it facilitates a different kind of performativity. So I was trying to think of how I can just, how could I just touch something, because I wanted to learn how to build touch sensitive capacitive sensor. How you put it there and that will have an interesting result, at least what I could think of. In the end, I decided that I built these three different controllers, pretty straightforward. The bottom one is just one turn everything on, one turn everything off. And the middle one is when I turn, when I press one of the buttons, one of the light is on, it forces everything to be off. And the last one was more interesting coming from a piano player is that when you touch it the light keeps flickering and I have a little potentiometer on the side and I can change the speed of it. So it was very interesting to see, okay, with the relay that I was working with, it could go maximum 100 hertz. That determines basically, I set the range for between 10 hertz to 100 hertz. So that the lowest, the slowest would be 10 times per second. And then the highest point would be you can hear 100 hertz frequency. And the interesting thing for me to explore this very simple idea, but when you work with an analog, like a relay that analogically flicker on and off, you hear the very low-fi synthesized sound when you tell the relay to flicker 45 hertz per second. You hear 45 hertz. And that actually got me to think a lot. That was very much the seed for encouraging me to get into this instrument building world. I find even just programming, something that's very simple, just thinking of how I put my fingers on the switches. And how you can use computing, you can use programming languages to sort of mediate this space that is not just on and off. You can tell them when you put your hands there, trigger the 45 hertz, for example. And what is more interesting is that I Find out that this is not just a controlling system it's not just me Telling the buttons to turn on and off. It creates a system between me and The machine and the space. Maybe before I get into that, I want to show you the video to get a sense what the performance is like, and then I can tell you more what I found during the process.3回目 So what I find when you perform in very fast speed, which I also very much like, when you move a lot, I think first of all I find thinking of the materiality of the controller is very interesting for me. So before the copper tape I was playing a lot with just a computer keyboard because I did not want to schlep so much stuff. But at the same time, there are also many MIDI controllers that are available in the market. But I sort of slowly realized that, well, the design of the object actually determine how you play. Like the keyboard, both the keyboard of the object actually determine how you play. Like the keyboard, both the keyboard and the MIDI controller, oftentimes I experience the resistance between the design and my hands. And then when you look at the computer keyboard, you see the grooves, it's not smooth. It's really hard to move around very quickly. And so at the same time, so as MIDI controllers, especially MIDI controllers, they have these rubbery surfaces. When I want to move fast, it actually hurts. It hurts my fingers if I want to play a 30-minute set. So I was really happy to learn about this copper tape material, which was new to me at that time. It's very thin and it's also worked with my skin. It's very thin in a way that you can just draw. I felt like I could draw with my hand on thinking of the music and you draw on the surface and then If you remember this picture the black one, this is a The black box. It's actually a paper box When it's a paper box, it has the resonance is softer on the on the on the finger. I find myself moving So much faster. And because of the acoustic quality, it's a little bit resonating. It's resonated with me a lot as a musician, that while I play, I hear the resonance of my actions. And the most interesting thing for me is that because the circuit is so open, I mean, I also unapologetically show you all my soldering on top of, I was not interested in hiding. I was very interested in making it a very open circuit in a way that actually when you accidentally hit the whole thing, Hit the like, let's say I put it, I hit the whole controller. It also works with how arduino read your signals. Because the way it program is so straightforward that it only When you play one thing, it trigger one thing. But when you put all of them, eight of the signals trigger at the same time, it has an interesting gesture that I could see it in my light. And it becomes my musical information as a musician. These are very interesting elements for me to notice that, oh, when I accidentally do this or or maybe just three of them, there's a layer of unexpectedness that you don't know how it comes out. But there's an attack and there's a gesture. And that demands me as a performer in real time how I interact with these things. And the fun part is that, also another fun part that the more I play with it, I realize that the instrument also interacts with the electricity in the venue. So every time it works a tiny bit differently, like when you go to a punk venue, then definitely there's a grounding problem, and it's definitely the instrument reacts very differently than you do. So every time i go to a venue, it's always a dialogue between me and The system and also with the space that you perceive. And yeah, so and over time, you it doesn't have to be over time. It's very noticeable, very immediately that when there's light, there's a body, there's always a shadow. And it's so interesting that to choreograph, every time I go to a venue, the first thing that I do usually is choose the best corner. Where's the best corner to play the shadows? When you stand closer to the wall versus more in the front, away from the wall, or when you choose a corner, the shadows really work very differently. And of course, in the end, it's also my choice how I'm going to put the lights. And the distances between the light and my body and the wall really made a scale of nuance of shadows. And when you play them musically, when I had some musical ideas in my head, channeling them through my sense of touch on the capacitive sensors. And what is generated is the interactions between my body and the machine and the space, which was very fascinating to me. And I was really interested. That got me actually started to think more. Where else? What are the interesting things? That was the time that I only made this. And so what would be the interesting thing to go even further? And so I keep thinking about that. And I find that the way I think about music, it's not that it's very special, but I like to highlight the fluidity of music. I think with the light set up, I see light and sound very continuously in the spectrum of music. I label them very explicitly, very kind of rigidly. Music is something that is bigger than sound. Sound is just one kind of materiality that articulate music. And for me, from my experience, I found music, light very musical also. Light is another side of this spectrum that I was trying to bring them together. And so I have a duo with guitarist, electronic musician Nicola Hein. We have a duo called Transonic. We are very interested in, like the name said said transonic. What is more than sound we are very interested in seeing the What Kittler would say Media fluidity like how what what makes it fluid? I mean also what? What is fluid in 20 that was 2018? What what makes it fluid in 2018? What is fluid in 20, that was 2018. What makes it fluid in 2018? What is the current contemporary thing to see the fluidity? So in the very beginning we were playing, we are light bulb guitar duo. Let me show you a tiny bit. Oh. So we, in the beginning we just treated ourselves, we didn't really think about it that much. We were interested in doing something. And so we just like to play like improvisers. So he's obviously having a guitar, having a typical, not typical, traditional, like a more, more like a, well, musical instrument. And I have a light bulb set up that basically coming from my bauble. And I was just interested in taking, playing together for me that listening to his guitar, I interact with my light, looking at how these lights interact with our setup. And at the same time, he took, he listened, look at my light. I also have sounds coming from me. So we playing together sort of acknowledge that light and sound are very complimentary relationships in this musical setup. But then over time we started looking into, okay, what is the technological means to that? What is philosophically means to us? What is philosophical means to us? You can tell, so because our setup is mostly with light and sound, And these are the things that we like to acknowledge the spatial elements of it. So we bring the setup to a lot of different places, Playing with the specificity of the space. Either it's the architectural design of the space that we cannot change, or we go into places like the Sark in Belfast, that they have a 46 channel speaker system and 512 channels of light that we can just play, we developed a new piece in that space. Later on, we also really interested, so before we get to this, we also interested in using different things to sort of acknowledge the system that we build. We also see ourselves as a human-on-human, human-machine system that we are developing. Over time, in the very first sets that you saw between us, we slowly added our electromagnetic pickups. We added solar panels, so using, putting my, putting solar panels under my light bulbs and feed it back into the guitar system. And so sort of finding different ways of using technological means to connect us, not just virtually how we perceive. The first layer is very perceptual, and then we slowly get into this technological aspect of the light and sound And this is also very fun I'm just going to show you a lot of performances so that you see the context of How my thoughts have been has been developed? and This is a very fun performance in Leipzig. We developed a light and AI agent that was trained on Nicolas' guitar performance. We can listen to that for a little bit. I'm sorry. Okay, so you get a sense. I'm happy to share the whole video with you guys. For a person like me who has been very obsessed with how to use my body to make something, to play something, to physically touch something, to watch someone next to me playing together and feeling the music together, that was a very interesting experience that I could hear. You might not be able to recognize Nicholas' guitar playing if you're not familiar with his playing. But when I was practicing, I was freaked out by some little gestures that is very close. So how to acknowledge them in this set up is very interesting to see an absence of body is also a kind of presence, conceptually, and how this musical agent system sort of facilitates playing around with the ideas of body and the interactions between the human and the machine. And so since we like light, I don't know if we like light very much, but we really like to continue the light in some ways to bridge the sound and light. We were interested in exploring laser as a new material for us. So we wanted to build an instrument with lasers. And we decided to build this, we also call this fluid ontologies. And this is an instrument that we turn a laser, repurpose the laser as a speaker, and we use solar panel. We repurpose the solar panel as microphones. So unfortunately, we don't have a picture with you, but you can. What we did, actually, we feed the audio signal into, modulate that into the laser, and the laser is basically shooting out in the form, in the sound waveform. Once they hit the solar panel, it picks it up, also as a sound, and then you remodulate it back to the audio domain, and then we can hear this laser feedback as a sound system. We can show you the instrument that we developed just this last two months. In the beginning, I mean, this is just something that we do it for practical reasons. We wanted to move, we wanted to see when you work with laser, every tiny little angle that you do it differently, you see it differently. It's an immediate audio visual performance. You cannot avoid not seeing the laser at all. And so we decided to build this compact system that we have a little backpack. You cannot avoid not seeing the laser at all. And so we decided to build this compact system that we have a little backpack. And each of us has two lasers on the hand. And you see these are the buttons on the side for real-time processing of the laser. So that you can hear it once it feed it back to the audio domain, you will hear this system. What is interesting about laser here is that laser is extremely, compared to light bulb, is much more sight sensitive. It's much more sight sensitive. So when you shoot the laser on that corner, and if your solar panel is right there, the solar panel still picks it up because it reflects directly back. But it also depends on how far this wall is. If it's further, you hear a different sound here because it picks up the voltage very differently in the on the solar panel and so whenever you move and you you you play it becomes the sonic material and it's directly coming from your body it's directly coming from how you react, how you put the sounds together, how you conceptualize these energies and turn it into musical gestures, musical materials. This is just for people who are interested in the technical part of it. So we have four solar panels on top for each person. Basically, we have an exact same system that we have when we perform. But that is the interesting part when both of us, two very different musical individual, and when we have the same setup, it really highlights how we perceive like this laser system very differently. And at the same time, how we play together as a duo. And if you're interested, we'll throw an article on the about this piece. But for now, I want to show you a demo of this instrument. So this video is about a minute long. But for now, I want to show you a demo of this instrument. This video is about a minute long. In the very beginning, it's not part of the performance. It's more showing you how the laser feedback works as an instrument. And then you will see the performance in the second half of the video. I'm sorry. Yeah, so just a side note, this is a performance from last year, which some of you saw it, saw the performance. And this year we turned this, so we sort of slowly learning about lasers and modify the instruments. And this year we changed the whole performance into green laser setup because it's, we also make sure it's safe for people's eyes and all that stuff when we really make it performative. So we like to, we change it to green because that's the most visible color in the visible spectrum so that we don't need to boost up the energy of the laser by keeping it very visible. And yeah, so over time I i slowly learning, just understanding, i guess, Myself as a builder, what i'm interested in. I'm interested in seeing these materialistic relationships, How the relationships that you can actually, most of the things That i only learned when I started playing them, started engaging as a user, how these hidden relationships that can be projected in the foreground as a performance. And oftentimes, it's very audio, it's very visual, it's very tactile. When I think of material, I think of how I touch them, how fast my hands are, how much I'm trained as a pianist can actually translate into that. Speculating if I would be a percussionist, maybe that's another story. That kind of stuff. And so thinking about my body as a transducer, I realized that this transducer also facilitating cross-modal perception in the sense that... I need to show you this piece. Ah, this is tonight. Sorry, I put it there. piece. Ah, this is tonight. Sorry, I put it there. So I realized that it's not just about the, all the things, I mean, like I said, the room, the material of the instruments, the material of the performing medium, such as sound and light. And this turntable, this is a feedback turntable that I made, which you'll hear tonight. It's also something, it's also a different aspect of thinking of cross modal perception, facilitating the cross modal perception as a means of developing performances in a way that a turntable can, what you see, do I have a picture of this? No, I don't have a picture of this. What you will see is three speakers on a turntable, and This is a turntable that is I call it, i usually call it susan because people call it a Lazy susan and susan is actually not lazy. This instrument when i turn them, it sets up a different, each of the speakers set up a different relationship between the microphone and the speaker. And there's only one microphone, and they all go into, the signal of the microphone goes into all speakers. But then when you have three different ways of processing, into all speakers. But then when you have three different ways of processing, you have, you are actually when you turn, you are setting up a modulated relationship between the three of them, three channels of them. What I find is so interesting about this instrument is that it's a physical aspect of it. I realize that when I play, it's not about, it's not just about listening to the sound anymore. It's also listening to how my hands are turning and how close I am. Like the movement, the little movement, especially when I like to use my fingers to press the membrane. And I realized that that's, to me, it's also a micro feedback over there. It's a feedback between the speaker vibrating, making a sound, and I hear it, and I take actions on the speaker membrane that changes the sound of the speaker. And over time, I really like the analogical aspect, like an analogical intervention into a digital system. And I introduce a cup or a paper or some different objects with different material that facilitate a different resonating frequency. And so I modulate the feedback on my feedback turntable with the objects that I introduce. And that becomes a very interesting, especially when it's turning. I find a turning is also very important in this thinking, as in, in some ways, it's infinity. It's all about how somehow the idea of infinity liberates me. It's just all about me. It's just all about how I listen, how I react to what I hear, how me putting, going back to the first slide, how I put me as a composer, performer, and maker at the same time, and how I channel all these roles or mixing, live mixing different roles. I've usually, oftentimes I feel that way when I perform. I like mixing my composer self and performer self during a performance. Sometimes I compose more, sometimes I perform more, if that makes sense. And maybe just a tiny bit because you will hear more tonight. Okay. This is me. So just want to show how things are set up if you are curious. So especially because of this turntable, I find it so interesting that when something is not fixed that you play. I guess it's not just that. Like thinking of the light instruments that I developed and this feedback turntable. And I find it so, the relationship between the design and the performance and how I perceive all these materialities are so tied together. And also because of the turning mechanism of the Susan, I find it really nice to think of a different behavior of an instrument. I was contemplating what sort of other behavior of an instrument would allow me to explore sound differently. Since then I was interested in having a wearable, something that I can fold and squeeze. And so this is an electromagnetic feedback dress that I specifically think that I made it for myself for my body movements and electronics. And so the electron, yeah, I can show you how it's made quickly. The dress is about 2.6 meters by 2.6 meters, and this hole is for me to slide in and tie up the dress. And what you see is a two-long non-insulated cable. It's a very cheap home audio cable that embeds the whole dress. What is... Ah, no, next slide. So this is the whole dress. What is, no, next slide. So this is the green dress, and I have two electromagnetic microphones on my hands. And it goes through some guitar pedals, mostly compression and fuss and reverbs to sort of allow me to control the electromagnetic feedback more sensitively. And then go back to the mixer and one set of signal goes to PA one go back to the dress to make it a feedback usually I really like to set the system relatively simple because I like to highlight how my body actually makes these relationships in the performance. And so what this performance to me personally is when you put the electromagnetic microphone close to the dress, you're picking up, because these cables on the dress are not very well insulated and so you are picking up depending on the distance between your hand and the body you pick up the sound very differently and also because there are two there are two cables so when you fold them you are physically modulating them at the same time doesn't have to be two, just within one cable, when you fold them, although they're the same signal, but when the cables overlap differently, if they overlap something, I don't know, something like this, they create interference. What you are hearing is the modulation. And the physical aspect of how my body review these physical, hidden physical relationships are very fascinating to me, especially when I can squeeze them. And the fun thing is not just about overlap. When you overlap one time, you hear different things. Because the dress is pretty big, you can keep folding for quite a few times. And then when you feel like you're so tied by the dress, you can, because the dress is pretty big, you can keep folding for quite a few times. And then when you feel like you're so tied by the dress, you can still squeeze the dress. And so it's so physical and as a musician that's also going back to my first point, that sort of like I'm channeling the virtuality of the sound that is not just a sound, it's a complex sound. Sound is a complex phenomenon. That how my body review these things. Yeah, then I'll show you a short video of that. It's a pretty noisy performance. Nettopp, fjellet er i dag. Yeah, so I was, I still very, I still think there's a lot to develop from there, like how you can squeeze sound. And also because it's so physical it really speaks to me and I was really interested at the same time I also acknowledge that I realized that there's also a layer that I I'm equally fascinated by is the idea of having a flexible machine something that you can fold and you can fold and you can squeeze, you can translate your body movement into. And I decided to make another instrument and this time I don't want to just squeeze it, I want to blow it up. So I made this inflatable feedback instrument where you can actually see my my speakers in there and microphones are on my fingers and so the the nice thing is sort of combining the my fascinations from the dress also my experience on on the on the feedback turntable, how the acoustic feedback actually can allow me to explore what an inflatable could do. So in this picture, you see that actually there is also a ball inside. This is, I call it a blob, that is big enough that I can be inside and when my hands with the microphones on there touch the ball in different point of the blob, the sound really changes and it's not just that, I don't know, I don't think it's so clear, but here you of the blob, the sound really changes. And it's not just that. I don't know. I don't think it's so clear. But here, you see there's a little flap going down. And so that's my little handle also. You can see me sometimes just holding it, just like swinging it within. And the sound really changes. And something that, I don't know, that's just my first imagination of an inflatable instrument. Probably there will be much more. I find the sort of quality of air, how air also supports, the quality of air resonates with me as a musician a lot, when you sing, when you play a recorder or clarinet, and how that turned into an electronic environment and how that allows me, this electronic environment allows me to play with the system, to physically engage with the system. I will show you a short clip of that.... So, what you saw is how I engaged, that excerpt you'll really see how I engaged with two inflatables at the same time. And I felt the vibration in the big one, I felt the vibration in the ball that was on my hand and when you allow these two resonators touch each other they really modulate the sound and as a result you hear that in the performance and Yeah, so since then I mean these are I really like using solo work Thinking when I think of body I think of a body that I know very well. This is this body and how I develop things specifically in this body and through this body I explore relationships in a very personal way and present it as a performance, as an interpretation, as a sharing. performance as an interpretation as a sharing and all these solo work really sets out like they're basically like seeds for different collaborations when i i don't play with people i mean except for in the transonic i I usually like to, when I collaborate with other artists, I like to develop different things. So you will see that just very quickly to show what other things I've done. I made a monochord for a string quartet, an augmented snare drum, also use copper, An augmented snare drum also uses copper touch sensors to augment the snare drum, so that the snare drum plays with electronics through the touch as an interface. And I play with using my light bulbs to play with a video artist and also Nikola from Transonic and Axel Dörner on trumpet and electronic. So expanding the small setup that we had as a duo and expand it to more audio visual aspect of it. And this is my performance. This is not my performance. of it and this is my perform this is not my performance this is my my my my piece for four percussionist playing in a telematic space and what you see is Karen in Hong Kong in the real space in the performance while Diego on the left is projected from Mexico City. Also doing different telematic performances with Ken Ueno, with Leticia Tsunami, also working with instrumentalists, with violin, live sampling. This happened last Sunday in Vienna. This is also something that you see that I have some small version of inflatables, a balloon, something that is very performative, playing with feedback and Jacob on harmonium. I hope that I give you a good overview with what I do. I hope that that's sort of the beginning of more discussions. I hope to have the exchange, hope that, yeah, I hope to have more exchange with all of you and thanks for letting me share thank you so i really like to thank you for sharing your exciting existing artistic practice with us and i really also appreciate that deeply reflected your own role as a performer when interacting with your own instruments. Thank you. Also, our students can maybe take something from them. It's not only about building instruments. We're also reflecting how you play them and to listen to you. Yeah, thank you. How much you have to say about instruments as well. Do we have any questions? I see so many new faces here as well. I'm really happy to see faces from other departments. So welcome and please come again to our next guest lecture as well. So the panelists can ask questions. Female Speaker 2 There is a question in the chat. Male Speaker 2 Okay. Well, we start with Rick. Rick D' Okay. Thanks. So, yeah. So, I'm going to start with Rick. Rick D' Okay. So, Rick, you're going to start with Rick. Rick D' Yeah. Rick D' Yeah. Rick D' Yeah. Rick D' Yeah. Rick D' Yeah. Rick D' Yeah. Rick D' Yeah. Rick D' Yeah. Rick D' Yeah. Rick D' Yeah. Rick D' Yeah. Okay, thanks. So yeah, I have a question regarding your performances actually. So when you perform, if I may ask about that state of mind that you're in, because to me it feels like this is a very intense practice, the way that you showed us. And actually, to build on that question, do you maybe have the incentive to either iterate your performances in a way that makes them comparable, or if you perform with the same instrument, let's say, you want to perform a similar thing, or do you always try to perform it in a different way, kind of? I don't have a simple answer to that, because I intentionally, in my head, when I think of myself as a maker, I, okay, let's rewind back a little bit, sorry, in my head. There are two things that I really enjoy being a musician to see. I like virtuosity in general. And, but I, there are two kinds of virtuosity that really stuck in my head, but they seem to be quite polarizing. One is the virtuosity of precision and the virtuosity of listening. And so I do see that when I am a maker, I sort of constantly negotiating the two places. So as me as a composer versus a performer. That's why I tell you that it's a live mixing. And of course it depends. I don't have a straightforward answer to that because it depends on how much I'm playing the instrument. Like for example, if you heard me play one instrument yesterday and then you heard me play the same instrument the next day, they probably will be very similar because I'm probably thinking similar things. But when performances are more apart, I like to sometimes start from a different place or I like to think what kind of situation that is, what sort of energy that our channel, but also it's most, So when i'm a maker, i like to think of these things as not as A controller, but more like a system for myself to be in. And you can also see that there are a lot of layers of each Instrument that is also, I allow the site specific elements to, I don't minimize them. I let them be because that's my system. This is my system. That means wherever I go, it's a bit different. And I like to highlight that. I like to highlight how I interact with those things as well. So I think that that comes to my interest in listening. That was the first thing that I said. I'm really interested in seeing how me as a listener to engage with the systems that I develop. And so most of the time I like to think precisely like what sort of next phrase, next rhythm, next gesture that I want to introduce. But I also allow that there's improvisation, which to me means that improvisation is just a way to perform these tiny nuances between relationships. And so in that sense, I don't have a precise. You might hear me starting every time the same, especially with my light bulb solo set. But every time I went somewhere else by the end of the performance. So that's sort of where I'm at. I'm also taking advantage of me, of myself, that I'm playing my own instruments. So I have my whole control. And so I think that's where the control comes in. The control doesn't come in how I present a performance, how I present a composition. I'm presenting, i'm Controlling what i want to control, what i don't want to control. I don't think nothing is, i don't like the idea of not being Able to control either. I just know that i like to know What are the elements that comes from the environment. And i know that whatever i do do that's my body to exaggerate that and that is this is the interface that I also cannot control this is who I am and and yeah so I think my performances or my work is mostly about that about these interactions and how I see that as a dynamic system. Thank you very much. Thank you. I think a question from... Yeah, there is a question from Lens, the chat here, the streaming. And this is the question. As you speak about translating body movements, you have now, for example, used your hands or even your fingers with microphones attached. You have also shared your interest in air. I wonder, is there a way to engage with your instruments even more through air moving? So through air moving, breath, voice, rapid movements. Perhaps you also have thought about this already. So I think if, yeah, it's more about breathing and air. Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, there are always a lot of things that you can work with, right? And so, but I always try to stick with what speaks to me. When I work with the balloon, I realize that the most interesting thing right now with the balloon and the feedback for me is how air and my blowing, exhaling gesture that makes makes to inflate the balloon that turns into electronics. So that's sort of I'm not interested in, I'm less interested in trying to do everything, but I'm more interested in asking myself, also for me using object is also not like a gimmick because you can only get whatever is available in the world. I don't make objects, so I'm more interested in seeing how my relationship of these objects, how I, for example, how I see balloon is such an interesting thing in feedback. What that means to me and how I can develop that. feedback what that means to me and how I can develop that and when I when I think of movement I am I'm more interested in seeing how movement actually sets out relationships rather than trying to map what this is of course there are a lot of people do this I they're doing it very well. But it doesn't speak as much as me thinking my movement is my way of navigating the world. And actually, there are so many things when I do this and this. There are so many relationships that I'm setting out in front of myself. And when I sonify them, everyone can actually understand this. And that's fascinating to me. So at the moment, that's where I'm standing. Just maybe a little bit additional to what the question from the chat was. I really imagine if you are in this feedback system, so a plate with similar things, if you kind of sing into it and sing with it, it also would be like a modulator directly. But is it kind of, it's not part of interest I hear it right it's not on this acoustically making from your body sounds from your body even if it's through voice yeah I think for now I'm more comfortable working with I mean I grew up singing a lot of choir also, so singing is not something that I hate. But for now I find myself mostly fascinated by these materials. And so when I want something to modulate, I would rather to channel the squeaky sound from the balloon as a modulating signal in the feedback, for example. And yeah, I think that's where I'm at. I think I... I mean, it's also... I do it very consciously that I like to think, maybe that's more like my musician self comes in and I wanted to make a decision how I see my instruments and I do see them as my composition and although every time it's an improvisation a lot of criteria is already set in stone in the system. And so I also develop different kinds of gestures just within the limitation that I'm setting myself. And that's where I see that how I communicate concept in each piece. And so every time I'm more interested in limiting what I could do instead of the other way around, which could be also productive. But for now, I think I would rather, I would prefer limiting options and see how I can communicate the idea to communicate the concept as a composition, especially when, see your performance, they don't necessarily understand your piece. Like you would say, oh, the circuit is my score, and the material is my score. They're all my score, but this is so personal that as an audience you don't see it. And so I like to sort of confine what I do on the performance so that I can communicate the concept as a composition. Mostly for, I think for communication purposes, but for me as a performer and explorer, I also find it really productive to explore. If you give yourself this much range, you just find a way to explore the nuances within a very narrow range, which could sometimes lead into very unexpected places that I was really happy with Well, thanks a lot, viola. Thank you. Really great presentation.