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Læs merke til minne, um Hello again at home delivery of Ars Electronica Linz. We're here at another series of Zuhause mit, at home with. We're here in the Pub Lab, sitting directly at Ars Electronica Center. And I'm very happy to introduce to you Emiko Ogawa, my guest of today's Zuhause mit. Very warm welcome, Emi. Thank you very much, Manuela, for this opportunity. Thank you that you actually accepted it. And yeah, Emiko, we are, we have been colleagues for a very long time. And we just saw a work that you did, that you illustrated, that you worked on in the last years. Can you let us know what we have seen? About the story we were. So this is the project 2014-15. Together with our friend, but the great artist Maki Namekawa, the pianist, and Shiaki Ishikawa, who is the composer, that we collaborate together to create the one project for the deep space. The topic, the story weaver, is the collaboration with the MIDI piano, that's the visual combination with the actual active visualization and also the combination of the post imaging. And the topic is the Japanese old storytelling, which all Japanese know that we wanted to weave the story for the kids also and also the people in Austria who don't know this story. So story weaver, like really weaving in the story and using deep space as a setting and Maki Namekawa, you mentioned it, was playing and so this I can remember actually it was a very very special setting. Amy you are an artist, you are an illustrator, you are a researcher, you are a project director here at Ars Electronica and you are doing so many things and even when we had I mean we know each other since quite already a very long time and when we said together just recently and we're like doing a recap of your time even before staying in Linz you even started or you not even started it you finished it I mean your studies have been about cognitive psychology. This is actually how you started in Tokyo after high school. What is cognitive psychology? First of all, my personal interest is the human being itself. Of course, we know that we all human beings are all different, but some points that we have some similarity that we tend to think like this because of human beings. We tend to recognize it because of the brain system of the human being. I'm very curious about this kind of the small, but a lot of things which normally we don't know, even we are the human beings. There's a lot of things that we don't know even we are the human beings. There's a lot of things that we don't know about this tendency. So then also that we really, the human being get a lot of influence by a lot of environment as well. So that was my interest in when we started to study about it. Not the individual psychological situation but about the human being itself. And I mean your time in Tokyo when you studied this and your focus on humans, on mental processes that are taking place on the way how people think, how humans are or are behaving and then you were studying this. But actually what I found also interesting is that you then worked as a systems engineer and as a web analyst. So can you tell us more how also this is coming together? Because I think, I mean, I also want to explain it because I think it's so important to tell our audiences also that, for example, if you're working as an artist, you can do so many other things. Yeah, it's just important just to do your experiences, even though it seems like it's totally foreign fields, which often isn't the case. So how was it in your case? Yeah, so in my case I was interested in the research situation more like how a human being get the effect from the environment unconsciously, how this changes the human's behavior. That was my first topic. It also looks like the same element of ethnography or something like this. It's about the observation and also the statistics is very important so that we can see in more scientific way as well. And in this point of view, first of all, I dive into the system engineer world because then it's more or less this numbers and statistics and logical thinking is very important and I worked in four years but the word working I'm working as the system engineer was more working in the very old system which is more like bank system or something so that I wanted to work and it was very nice experience and also I realized that not only making the system but also how to tell this system to people it's super important even to the programmers even to the people so that I wanted to shift to more website which is more interface information. So it's about the information and the statistics and how to tell based on the human's recognition and also the human's behavior we tend to have. So I changed the job after four years to more web analytics, more like usability design and also the analysis for the dis-usability interface. And then in the meantime I was also working together with my partner Hide to work about the so-called media art and the interactive art project. My interest and working together, my interest was more the how people can intuitively interact with the artwork and his interest is how he can make the this message or vision to the artwork so that was the very coincidence and the natural things that we worked together. So this intuition or this intuitively going into or giving others a chance into going into some information. I think this is really something that is very characteristic also of your work. And also like visualizing information. I mean, this is also what you do in web statistics, it's more a statistical approach. But what you are doing with your personal approach and with your illustrations, and you work as an artist, and when I see your illustrations, and I mean we can have a look now at your illustrations, we have it even here in the back, Marusan is a very important icon of mascottchen a mascot for the ars electronica center how did you actually come to marusan well it was not intended to to make as a character but it was spontaneously to make as a character, but it was spontaneously born, so born, so to speak, that we wanted to, when I use it, when we want to describe about our artworks. As I mentioned, so our artworks was at that moment, a very interactive art, so to speak, and to make some description how to react, how to touch, what kind of reaction happens. And it's super easy that once I draw one icon or human being shape, then people immediately understand, ah, here's the interaction, how to use like this, and this expression already shows that, ah, ah, effect coming, so that I need not to write, hey, here, first you touch, second, it happens here, and third, you see, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da even only one drawing with one human being and some artwork, I can already describe what is the meaning or how to interact with the artwork and that's the reason I wanted to start to draw the human beings things and i call it so um that marusan marusan maru san so maru means that in japanese like circle means nothing so it doesn't mention about nobody so it's it meanings of empty and sun is as some people know, it's just a respect format. Like we can call it Manu-san or Manuela-san, which is just a very charming and friendly way and also the respective way to say, to tell your name, like not like Mr. and Mrs. So I started to call it Marusan. So it's anonymous, that it can be you, it can be somebody. But as a representative of human being, how you can react with the artwork or what kind of experience you have in this situation, that's the starting point that I started to draw for the description of our artwork. In 2007, we came together with Hide, I came to Asokutonika and Linz as a first of all just an artist in residence for one year and at that moment Gervit Stoker our artistic director just saw my drawing and conceived the idea of maybe this is also very intuitive and good for the new Asoc Tonika Center. May I interrupt you Amy Amy? Because I think we even have prepared a photo, an image of the first generation of Maru-san. So maybe we can have a look into... This is the part of the instruction that you just mentioned about the artwork, right? And we can see Maru-san, which is a very nice name, a very respectful and polite name for a placeholder, as you mentioned. We can see here also Maro-san, for example, down in the image who wants to connect with or is going into the direction of the cube. Yeah. Right? So this is the project called Cube 2003. And it consists of three parts. And each part, the scale is different. So the human being icon is very effective. How to touch, what kind of things that people could see. And in the left side, the one person is taking some cup which means that it can be also effective cafe so all information i can just put into one drawing and the next generation at ice electronica center is also what we prepared as images as images so we will see how you modified maro san look yeah so uh for example for year so even the people who don't know this english or german still people can imagine that it should be the information center and some one person should be available for me. So this is the one example. And maybe the next images that you see, like the Noyes-Bilder from Mention. So even people don't understand German, maybe people can imagine, okay, something robotics, something more physical experience, something more genetic. So these are the messages which I understand that we want to deliver this information. So that was all my understanding how we want to, I want to introduce the Soft Onika Center. So maybe like this deep space is that you cannot fly at all actually but this is my image of the experience that kind of wow I wanted to describe and I still I like one of my favorite icon of the Asoktunika Center in deep space. And I think that it's I mean it's on the one hand like auf der Asoctonica Center in Leap Space. Und ich denke, es ist auf der einen Seite wie die Visualisierung von Informationen für andere, aber das ist nicht das letzte Bild, das wir hier sehen. Okay, sorry, wir sind tatsächlich geschlossen, also es ist nicht in Ordnung oder es funktioniert nicht. Also, was passiert hier? Ich denke, es ist sehr klar, was die Leute erwarten können. so it's out of order and or it's not even working so what's happening here I think it's very clear what people can expect and even I think they can even feel with the person that is telling it with Maruza yeah very nice Amy and you were mentioning also that you are I mean when you are drawing and drawing is something that is super important for you yeah whenever you are drawing and drawing is something that is super important for you yeah whenever you are so knowing and drawing has a big relationship actually can can you maybe tell us more about it well um to me drawing is my language so um not only to write some letters but drawings that describe what I understand and how I understand. Thank you for this interview, Kei. I remember that also I have a tendency that since I was a teenager that since I was teenagers, I tend to draw the drawing in my notebook and also especially that diary notes that to how to store or keep my memory. I would like to bring it also in now because I think we have to have a look on the sketches. Like this is a typical Norma's. It's not even a very special sketch. It's a sketch out of the life. Even with traces from Moët, your daughter, right? It's really one of the example of my schedule note. And also there's some drawing from my daughter as well, combination. But to me, drawing, it's not for thinking or scrubbing, but to me, more outcome. That after my thinking or understanding, I want to draw. And because I want to keep my understanding in very intuitive way. I want to keep my understanding in a very intuitive way. And to me it's the same meaning in the weight I have as another language as well. So it's on the one hand thinking about memories, because you mentioned the diary, and you are keeping the memories via drawings, but you're also thinking via drawing or is it? It's both, but to me, what I really want to draw is more keep my understanding. So in this point of view, it's completely the same as how can I say, of course, while I'm thinking, I draw it. But this is also my current understanding. Then okay I sort always of course I think it's completely depend on the person but to me drawing is how I understand and how I want I perceive the information so it's very know it's a very personal and very subjective view, but this is the thing I understand and I want to share with you. So this is the position of that drawing. So drawing is then actually more understanding situations. For example, if we come now to one of the very important theories, also here at Ars Electronica, is design thinking is existing, but Ars Electronica and also you and also together with Hida, I mean art thinking is something where we all elaborate actually a lot on it. So what does it actually mean and how is it actually contributing to our own practice? Can you tell us more? What do you very personally think what art thinking is? Yeah. As I mentioned and also as you know that my background it's not art it's not coming first that my interest was from more interest of the human being itself and so then i meet with art and it's really i I was so, how can I say, astonished about the power of art. That first of all, throughout the, make the project together with Hide and my colleagues and our lot of collaborators, I was always inspired with the power of art. And then afterwards afterwards more than it that when I come to Linz and work in Asoc Tonica I was more and more surprised and completely into the power of art and that's the thing I really wanted to share with people that how the art has the power to let people think and to think about the human being itself so that's the reason i'm still really fascinated to work in ars electronica and also love my work to organize and have a network of trias of ton. Yeah, that's a good point actually. If we come now to your position within Ars Electronica, I mean you are the head of Pre-Ars Electronica. You are directing Pre-Ars Electronica, I think since 2013. 13 and it's so you have a huge experience working on the wall I mean you yourself you are artist you are you have to understanding how artists feel when they submit when they actually contribute their work their knowledge their their world their artistic, when they speak about this within Ars Electronica and within the pre-Ars Electronica. And what I find also very interesting is how you are reflecting on this. Because you are, I think this is also why you are not only organizing it so that enough people are contributing to the pre-Ars Electronica or that they can get a hold of Golden Nike then at this stage whatever so you are this in these discussions when you for example present Pre-Ars Electronica and when you present also the development of Pre-Ars Electronica I like always very much how you frame and how you contextualize the works that are actually then on display or that has been selected. How, I mean you as yourself, you are an artist, so what are the challenges for you in like working as a director of PRI, as Elektronika, but maybe also the possibilities and the chances that you see and also maybe the context that is opening up for you, the world of so many topics and themes that are all coming together. Yeah, well, as you may know, the Piazzoktonika is the competition with the several categories and happening every year so that every year different artists submitted and we get inspired with their own way how described the society and what kind of technology they are using or what kind of situation that they warn us or let people think like this art thinking, one of that thinking way. And what I really love and really take care is that how we can really share this excitement and also the topic that we can share with people during the festival and also how we can make the opportunities for the artists that they get inspiration for example during the Asoctonica festival throughout some opportunities to meet people or some framework setting to get another inspirations or invite the artists in another context for the different inspiration for them. So always try to make this circulation because that this is also again my understanding of art thinking that it's not like just get inspiration and think like this but to me the art thinking the most important thing is this circulation it should be really ah yeah thank you maybe you can explain well still it's a scrubbing and my understanding of art art thinking it's not the way of the think like number one two three but the most important thing is the circulation that to create your ecosystem, to make more your thinking way more and more clearly. And the important thing is that of course, to get the inspiration is the first step maybe, but then you can think about, and a lot of artwork let you think about many topics like the, this year we've saw a lot of project that AI related project, which is very useful for the human being and sometimes it's very convenient for the human being, but we should know about what kind of the thing that we show, we provide the information to the AI. Is it really for example, yeah, is it really necessary for the human being or and so to normally when we are in the convenient situation we and the human brain tend to switch off to think, just react. But always the artist's work make people to think, to stop and think, which is super important. And then also the second important thing is then we should make some prototyping, whatever. So it may be the prototyping, the real one, or for some people, to me, maybe drawing. And for some people, it may be just describing what you think, but then afterwards, the dialogue. It's super important not to show like this, but I think the artists really want to talk each other and exchange each other the opinion and then the other people get the inspiration again so this circulation is super important and during the time since you are actually the head of the pre-Ars Electronica. There is also, I mean, there's not only the different categories like interactive art, sound art, hybrid art, digital communities, animation. What did I forget? U19. I'm sure I forgot something, but there's a lot of different categories that we have. And you already mentioned it for you it's very important also to to give the artist a chance to meet not only via the presentation during the festival which is then also very important so whoever submits to the pre as electronica has a chance if virtually or in person at least to be connected to the network of Ars Electronica, to exchange, to share things. But also during this time we developed, for example, the Ars Electronica Animation Festival. festival so there is a more platforms even that not only belong to the time of the festival or that not only belong to the pre as a to the to the time of the shui meeting or then the presentation so um this way is of sharing and communicating is something that is extremely important for you when it comes to the prius electronica yeah exactly because that i believe that this is the reason for the artist who really want to submit the prius of tonica to of course to be recognized as an an award but also that to get the opportunity to get the inspiration from their side as well and this is also for all people that who want to um get the inspiration from their side as well and this is also for all people that who want to get the inspiration as well to see what is the most important thing that human beings should think so to me it's completely into my interest as well that as you know that I'm super interested in about this human being itself why we tend to think like this what is the and the technology in society is drastically changing the situation every year so it's not just a normal circulation but every year it's drastically changing a lot. So I'm really super keen to see it. And another thing that is really outstanding is the contribution by female artists, right? Exactly, exactly. And for example, last year we started the new category called the artificial intelligence and life art category and I realized that in this field there's a lot of female submitters in compare with the other categories so as I mentioned the statistic is to me very important element so that in the beginning of the jury meeting which is normally happens in mid of April. Normally we invite all jury members to Lins to discuss because it should not be just online voting or something I like it or something but more discussion is very important because this is also another element that jury members should get inspired with the other people with this open dialogue. So unfortunately, this year, 2020, we could not make this meeting physically but online because of the COVID situation. But we really try to settle the proper way that how we can make the environment to let them discuss a lot. And normally that and what I wanted to mention was that in the we call it Thursday evening, we have the reception night with all jury members to introduce all jury members. We did it this year via online though. night with all jury members to introduce all jury members. We did it this year via online though. And in this introduction, always I show the statistics of the submitters. And you prepared it also for us here. Yeah. So because it's important thing, this is just a fact, but I think it's important for the jury member to know and see. And for example, this is the example which I showed to the jury members 2020. I just added the 2020 winners after the jury meeting for today. But what you see is the submitters since 1987 and the jury members and the bottom is the Golden Nika winners female and male artists and group and if you see the left one upper one the submitters are still a lot of male artists, and the female artists are this year only still 30%, and half of them are still male artists. So the numbers of submitters are still female artists are less, but of course when we compare with these five years, it's getting more and more, so it's increasing. This is already, of course, the tendency, but the first portion, the pies are different, actually. So that's the first information. And only the Asoc Tonica's organization side can, only we can do something is the amount ratio of the jury members, female and male. So that after 2013, in the beginning you see the yellow is the male jury members. So we try to invite the female jury members and since this 2016, we really try to keep that more than half are female jury members and since this 2016 we really tried to keep that more than half are female jury members because the winners are selected by jury members and Asoctonica doesn't cannot select them so and then selected jury members we address this information the Golden Ica winners since 1987 address this information, the Golden Ika winners since 1987, categorized that every 10 years, these are the pies. In the dark blue are the female single artist, and the green part is the single male artist, and the others are group. And this year is a very special year. As you see the right one, we have three single female artists in two groups. And also the statistics, this year finally, if we compare with the several decades, every five years actually, you see the blue part, more than green part, means the female artists, Goldenika artists are more than male artists and this is the first year ever of this Piazzottonica's history that I wanted to share with you. Yeah, that's really great. I mean, also especially because we are talking a lot about this issue in like being here in Central Europe, but you also told me a lot of stories about Japan and how the situation developed also for women. It was very interesting also that you mentioned it's not so much about this kind of professionality or in like in a working cycle, there's a lot of women having wonderful positions. But as soon as they are marrying or as soon as they want to have a family, it's changing drastically, right? Yeah. It's still, I think, unfortunately, this is the current situation in Japan. And you may know the global ranking of the female activation, I forgot the exact name, but Japan is like one of the worst countries that female people are not in. There's so less amount of the politicians, female politicians, female leaders, if we compare with the the other countries it's like 146 or something like this in whole countries in whole countries can you imagine it's super um pity situation but i know that there's a lot of very flexible and how can I call that a lot of female artists in Japan and as well as that also in the companies that female people we are really directly changing and try to changing but still it's on the way and still it's not in the politics, but I really feel that it's starting. It's very late. But I think it's also, I mean, here in Austria, it's on its way. We still have a long way to go. And then it's maybe because of, for example, if I see Tokyo because, well, before i live in linz i was living in tokyo and it's big city and commuting is very normal i spent like 40 minutes commuting every day just go there go to the workspace and just go back to home. And this is completely, 40 minutes, it's completely normal. And like 30 minutes is in the train like this, really literally like this. I cannot stand even like this, but like this. And this, first of all, to me it was normal so that you can imagine that You can imagine that the society in Japan was not so kind for young mothers, well, even not young, but anyway, mothers and children. For example, still in the Japanese train, there's only the first car and the last car. There's one space of the baby car, and that's it. So it's still so hard to even try and use the public transportation for mothers and fathers with a kid, the small babies, which have to be really changed in my opinion if I really compare with the European cities like this I was astonished that the tram the Strassenbahn tram it's really designed completely the baby car first and also the wheelchair first because they are there and they need to use the public transportation of course and this should be also same for the Japanese situation but it was not unfortunately reflected in the proper way in my feeling you have uh i mean it was in austria that you that moore actually that that you gave birth to more more is now four years old and so hideaki has a wonderful position at ars electronica you have a wonderful position at ars electronica have a wonderful position at Ars Electronica. You're both also working as artists and you actually created a family and you were together the three. So I also would like to ask you because you once mentioned that you love Sundays in Austria. Why do you love Sundays in Austria? Well, as I mentioned, I was working before we come to Linz. We are working in Tokyo. And of course, Sunday is working day. And of course, for you, of course. Well, I think not so for so many Austrians. Yeah, that's true. So to me, that it was very normal situation on Sunday. Of course. I think not for so many Austrians, but for you, of course. To me, it was a very normal situation. On Sunday, all the shopping malls are opening and all amusement things are opening. So this was a completely normal situation at that moment. But when I look back at these Tokyo days, I worked a lot during the weekdays and also spent some time and money a lot also on weekends and still exhausting because of this consuming and also that long time commuting time, which I felt at that moment very normal. But when I after come to Linz, I realized that okay, Sunday, nothing to do, okay, what I can do, but I realized that it's so nice that officially I can make it switch off and make my time for more. Like, we decided to concentrate on for more at our at work on besides the working times so it's super to me it's super important that Sunday is more calm day and more on a locate to more working day, personally, internally, to develop our thinking or the prototyping more. And I think for human being, this kind of the calm time or calm day is really needed. I think. And maybe that's the reason it was invented initially. Maybe. I mean, there was also some kind of religious thing in the back. Yes, of course. If we speak about humans and some kind of human intention. This brings me directly to the last question also. Amy, what does home mean for you? What does Zuhause mean for you? Yeah, true. To me, I think the home is the place but yeah like sunday that um i can be myself relaxing and so it doesn't matter the which kind of home i'm there but to feel okay this is my space and I can spend some time. This feeling itself is home. And of course, the families are super important, but to feel at home means like to really have this calm time for me because recently more and more time is very tend to be very busy a lot of information is around us we really need to have some time and space to focus on the calm time and think slowly and calmly and make the prototyping. Thank you very much, Emi, that you came. Thank you very much, Moni. Thank you very much, Monique. So, Emiko-san, to make it really correct. Thank you very much that you actually participated. Thank you very much. You gave us an introduction into your world, into your artistic world, into your thoughts, into the way how you are sharing and via visualizing your thoughts also to others and that you bring in others and that you collaborate with so many also other artists and that you direct. I have something I remember that you when you say Eriko-san. So I want to give some present to you that about Maru-san maybe that this is in your collection yes understanding of like curiosity this is very nice this is very nice assigned assigned Maru-san from Emiko-san thank you very much thank you very much thank you very much also for you that you joined us again uh at zuhause mit at home with uh there are a lot of yes a lot of interviews a lot of situations that already took place here in the PubLab. We are very happy if you like us, if you subscribe to the YouTube channel. And I hope that you join us for the next sessions and hope to see you soon again, or maybe even to see you in person at the Ars Electronica Center. Ciao, ciao!