There are some people, or maybe from a particular country or some areas in this world, who still see Africa like a place where there is hunger, where nothing is moving. Africa is developing, we want to go from a different point of view. If you see countries like Ghana, like Nigeria, where the political transition has been done, I mean, in the move way, in the normal way, like in Europe, where there is no political crisis. And because these things are being held back, people still hold on to their preconceived ideas that they still have about Africa. Welcome to the project of the black community. This project is sponsored by the organization called Structural Researcher for Politici Building. We want to use the opportunity to thank them for giving us the opportunity to deliberate on issues that concerns not only those of us coming from the continent Africa but the world in general. We at the same time want to use the opportunity to thank the government of Upper Austria, the social department who makes this also possible for us to keep on doing one or two projects we have been doing and at the same time the city of Linz from the cultural and integration department to make this possible. This evening we are going to talk about environmental Africa that's a topic we, and it's got to be channeled on issues that move and concern Africa as a whole and the world in general. In the room in the discussion, I have the CEO, in German they call the Geschäftsführer of the Black Community. That's somebody who directs the affairs of the Black Community. that's somebody who directs the affairs of the black community. My name is Mr. Uche Njoku. Uche, can you please tell the listeners a little bit about you? My name is Anselm Uche Njoku. I come from Nigeria and I've been living here since almost three years now. Following him is a very good friend and colleague of mine by name Dr. Pierre Ugeyi. He comes also from Godewa and is also a product of Kepler University. He studied at Fox Richard and is also from the level BSc, Masters and his Doctorate degree there. So Pierre can you please say something about yourself? Yeah, Pierre Oge is my name. I come from Ivory Coast and as you said we went to Kepler University and I'm living here since my family and me since almost more than 20 years. You're welcome. The only lady among us in the German we call it masters in English she says MSC Mrs. Mary Okanse. She is also a social policy analysis please mary can you tell our listeners a little bit about you something i may have forgotten thank you very much for the introduction so just a little bit more about myself uh i am mary as he said and i came came to Austria that four years ago and I came to join my husband who was taking his doctorate in the Kepler University. And when I came in, I saw the opportunity to also further my studies. And originally we are from Ghana in West Africa. So for the past four years, we've been living in Austria, over in Gabon, Helmand Sud, precisely. Yeah, thank you. And to my very self, I'm Mr. Ikechukwu Okafo. I also went the same Kepler we all of us started, and at the moment I try my small little best to assist the young generation, the youth. I'm a social youth counsellor and also in the political arena I try to also contribute in the development of our society. That's why also I came to this idea. So to our topic I said environmental Africa. He says everybody knows in the world now we're talking about climate change, climate change and say the environmental pollution and climate protection are global issues and Africa is important in several ways and Africa is no longer ways and Africa is no longer to be seen or defined with those usual definitions like in German they call Creek with a war in English catastrophe is catastrophe and corruption is corruption and hunger and drought and undeveloped area Africa is developing we want to go from a different point of view and point and hunger and drought and undeveloped area. Africa is developing. We want to go from a different point of view and point out things that concerns and the sales and the contributions we are making on that level. We was trying to say Europe and China and the African trade, development aid, non-culture, what is of use to whom, and to which environmental, economical, and do they have political implications to our people. We should also talk about what is this agenda, how are we to understand it, who is the beneficiary of this relationship. Just as I said before, what is the political implication and what is the environmental implication and how does this implication affect both the culture in the continent, in terms of music communication, human development and many others. To all these questions, I will start to ask my Uche, the G's, the Fura, the CFO of the Black community, how do you see these definitions attached to Africa and the present situation in Africa at the moment? Do they have, does this definition still hold? Because we will later come in to share many of the developments that are happening over there. In some areas, the African continent is leading in terms of environmental. We have, from what our researchers have told us, many people may not know it, we have started before even the Europeans began to talk about and notice the climate change because we are experiencing it personally. So does this definition still hold at the moment? I can say it depends on how each individual sees it there are some people or maybe from a particular counter or some areas in this world who still see Africa like a place where there is hunger we are nothing is moving let me use an example here now somebody from somebody from United Kingdom they have more contact more things to do with some African countries unlike somebody from Australia those from UK they have more historic things, information about Africa than here, than those who are living here. If you go to schools, like I have seen even some children in these schools, even my own daughter, what they hear more is how there is hunger in Africa, how things are more moving in Africa how the Africans can not even do that very well do things work which I have even had somebody who said a woman who told me there's something like that directly but if you go to another area let me use an example in our United States they see the Nigerians there as one of the most educated educated foreigners you have in United States so the picture how they see Africa depends on the country or depends on the area the image they created or they give them about Africa but the question is this are the Africa are the African regions like the way they define Africa to be? For me, I can say no, it's no more like that. The Africa of 20 years ago is not the Africa of this present time we are into now. Pierre, you studied here, you traveled back there to give lectures at the university. I forgot to tell our people. Pia is also a guest professor at the University of Cocody in Abidjan, in Ivory Coast. So you have a different view as many of us who are staying here only and getting our information from either the social media or the print media, you have more experience. What do you say to that particular thing? Thank you for the question. First of all, I want to say things can be seen partly good, partly bad. partly bad. What I mean is that we see Africa as a continent of hunger, a continent of riots, a continent of, I mean, social disease. Right now, those things still hold in some part of Africa. I can give you an example. For a few days I saw on the television a report from Madagascar where people are starving. I mean 2020. People are starving in Madagascar. Not because of disability, but because of lack of food. That's the first thing. And the second thing is that the causes of those problems, I mean political problems, those causes are still holding in some countries. If you see countries like Ghana, like Nigeria, where the political transition has been done in the move way, in the normal way. Like in Europe, you are the elected president, you take over the power. Where is it? Where there is no political crisis, where people are not killing themselves because of their power. In those countries, Africa has moved away, has moved moved ahead can I say. In some countries where we are cultivating the harm to kill people, to kill people, I mean like countries like Guinea in West Africa, countries like the Ivory Coast in West Africa, countries, we saw it shortly, like Burundi, where they don't respect the রেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরের� The progress has been done in Somalia and there are some other countries where things have gone a little bit backwards. In terms of food now, fortunately, apart from Madagascar where I showed the last time, some countries have been in the good way in terms of food, in terms of nourishing their populations. That's what I can say. But as I'm not living there permanently, there are some things that can escape from me. I don't know. Okay. What would you want to add to this, what the two gentlemen have already said? I would say that really Africa has, there's been a lot of reform and to say that the three case as you mentioned still holds I will not rule it out completely but I will say that there has been a lot of I mean improvement and we cannot hold on to those three case I just want to say that it is still lingering on the minds of a lot of the Western society these three case and that's when I say three case I mean is German I don't know if mr. Kappa you want to help me with the meaning of the three keys this is just the catastrophe crank height okay click okay so that's war hunger and catastrophe and war what do you call it corruption as well yes so i won't rule everything out corruption is still something that african governments are struggling with was i will say that i don't really see much of that there now. Then, catastrophe. Yes, a bit of this is going on, and we'll say disasters, that's in English. It's still happening, and there are root causes to all of this. I will not say that these things do not pertain in other continents. Africa is a continent, we have our struggles, but I must say that there has been a lot of improvement currently. And I want to say that, I mean, before I mentioned these three cases, a lot is happening and a lot is not being spoken out there to the western media because of how the preconceived ideas when africa is mentioned okay hunger disasters wars these things are changing better things ought to be broadcasted for the entire world to know and because these things are being held back people still hold on to their you know preconceived ideas that they still have about Africa democracy is really going on well in a lot of African countries and I would not say that I mean it's, but at least there has been a lot of improvement and we are not hearing this in the Western media. They only bring it out when there are wars after, when there are, you know, issues here and there with elections. But when the handing over is going on smoothly, they do not broadcast that. I think it is just about the media in the western society bringing out both sides of the coin and not letting things stay with only the negatives so that people are abreast with issues that are happening in africa and all these you know mentality that there's no good coming from africa it changes. But if they are here and they don't, they are not in Africa, they don't know what is going on, but this is the only thing they see, then this conception still stays with them. So for me, I will say that for Africa's image to be put out there, exactly what is happening, it depends on the media and what they put out there exactly what is happening it depends on the media and what they put out there because not everybody will have the chance to visit ghana and know exactly what is happening on the grounds let's say that poverty in austria there are some parts and some people who are also going through a hard time putting their daily needs together it doesn't't mean that the whole of Austria or the whole of Europe are in a poverty stricken. But when it comes to Africa, if a certain or even a small village is captured on the news, Africa is poor. But the same Africa has lots of countries. Over 54 countries are in this continent. over 54 countries are in this continent so why do we you know pick one village in congo and highlight it poverty in africa what stops you from saying that poverty in this you know village because when you come to austria you won't tell me that poverty in austria meanwhile the person is living in you know ufam gabon a small village there and you capture it as poverty in Austria, meanwhile the person is living in, you know, Ufa, Mgebo, a small village there and you capture it as poverty in Europe or poverty in Austria. You know, for me it's just about how we put information when it comes to the continent of Africa out there. This will go a long way to change a lot of the preconceived ideas that things that used to be I won't say everything is gone but a lot has changed thank you so much I will also want to pick up from where you stopped there are some developmental aids that have been seeked either by the governments from Africa and these governmental and developmental aids impact and environmental problems in Africa I see that way both in the dependency and in the self development self-development yeah it affects because if you make your budget from begging, from money borrowed or from asking somebody to assist you, then you're not making a budget. It depends on what the... And all those things make it so that the nature in Africa is being misused. For example, there is a monoculture, we have an example of China buying so many lands in some part of Africa, and there, a monocultural production of food, particular food, so that it has to feed the European market. The question is how does this, both developmental aid coming from the West and these monocultural projects affect the climate and the cultural problems in Africa. What can you guys say about that? I will just say something about this particular issue now. When you see somebody from, let me see, Europe or China or that's all, Asia, let me use that word right, or America, trying going to Africa to say, that's with the name or under the umbrella aid, you ask yourself, what do they want to benefit from that aid? They are not giving anything without having something in return. And while they are doing those things, let me tell you this, none of them is considering about the environment of Africa of that area they consider on that their own mission because why go in there doing that they have they will have a mission in your mind and that mission is the focus and not what happens to the people this is where everything centers yes we know that time let me use for example how the China you mentioned we have seen some areas where they're using the word investment investing things it does investing in gold mining for example in Ghana Investing in good mining for example in Nigeria And then you see what that that's good mining has cost in that particular area I saw I saw one village in Ghana where it affected the landmass. That's that place if you see the type of That place, if you see the type of problem it has caused, that people around that place can no more go to the farm and farm and get something for themselves. But the Chinese company that is doing it doesn't care about the life of the people. What they care about is what they take out from there in their own country. And that's where we normally say that African countries should stand up and do those things by themselves because when you are doing something for yourself there are things to put into consideration you will care about about my kids my children the next generation to come how about the people who are going to farm and so on and so forth let me use for example again the uh oil mining companies in nigeria shale and all these things we have seen what they have done in manger delta and none of them considers the people who are living around that place the people can no more go to farm and just farm and get out crops for their children. The companies don't even care about what the families are passing through. They care about what they are taking out from there. So just to make it short, when you see any of them, any of these nations going to Africa for an aid to them, തതેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরેরે� world can go and develop another country if not developing its own interest those development heads for Africa since almost the independence what is the result what kind of result did we get from it the Africans must understand one thing and they must know one thing. No other country can come and develop them, regardless of what they will receive. Let me give you an example. When they were independent, the Senegalese president, Leopold Seda Sengon, went to IMF, to World Bank IMF, to ask for money to come and organize his agricultural area they say no we cannot give you this money for your agriculture area look that means there are some area where they accept to give money for and there are some area where they don't want to give money that mean রেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরের� The Ural area, after the departure, there's no single human being living in this area again. Because they are all radioactivity. All of them. This one is in Gambon, this one is in Niger. The Republic of Niger. Okay. Mary, I saw you trying to articulate what you want to give us. What do you mean? You know, I mean, it's not about articulation, but, you know, I was trying to follow, and I lost track of the question you asked anyway. That's why I'm just, you know, trying to get my mind back on it. Yeah, so you mentioned China Europe African you know I was talking about the development aid that is that's been expected from the Western world and China I was sometimes talking about the monocultural plantations people have begun to want to plant like the Western world planting and at the end these are things that destroy our environment and most of those things are immediately when they are produced, packaged and shipped away from the country that even people don't get it. plantation of rose flowers Yeah Using a very land mass to produce flower rose flower to be sent back to Europe in Ethiopia Okay, in Ethiopia. Okay. So What benefit do we have from it? It destroys our culture. It destroys our people, it destroys the land. Yes Yeah, so that's what we are talking about and in combination with aid they will tell you oh we want to bring this and they give you that money and so on there yeah so with regard i i want to take it as a lot you have in one question so let me just take it step by step i'll try to be very brief anyway so i will say that when it comes to trade well it might be that africa is not you know getting so much out of the various negotiations and agreements they have but we cannot rule out the fact that in some way it's better than nothing at all i mean when i say it's better than nothing we need something from them and the conditions when i say we need something i'm talking about financial provision for when you look in the there was something i was reading yesterday um africa union has this agenda for 2063. Socioeconomic development of Africa is one of the topmost, you know, priorities. When it comes to socioeconomic development, I have said this before that we are living in a global world. We cannot have everything. We need to, you know the trade is very necessary we need to exchange but then you ask yourself in the exchange what are the terms it is the terms that we see that when it comes to african countries african countries are really, they do not get as much as is expected from their partners. Their partners end up gaining more. And I would want to say that sometimes it's difficult for our government because of where they find themselves. They are in a position where, you know, I want to put this infrastructure together. My youth need jobs. I want to put this infrastructure together my youth need jobs I want to establish this the person who is giving me the financial aid gives me certain terms in the bed to you know just put these structures together I realized that our government do not look into the future of the various contracts they are signing with these financial aids they are getting from the western powers Okay, and it ends up putting the continents the countries the regions In situations that later on you realize that you are at the beck and call of these western powers who are giving you these financial aids An example you raised was the issue of china an example you raised was the issue of china china is is supporting a lot of african countries in terms of financial aid when it comes to their development but you ask yourself what is in for them yes in the outlook i mean you will say oh wow these people are doing so much for africa they are giving us soft loans they are bringing in their people but if you look deep into everything that they are doing you ask yourself yes we are benefiting but they are when you you go down to look into I mean draft of things and you look into how things are going bringing the us I mean technical stuff to come in paying their workers in their currency raw materials everything coming from there you realize that in the end Africa does not really order the country in quotes they are supposed to be helping and some being used used as helping their people, helping their economies, and they put, in quotes, they put you in a certain situation where even at a certain point, the resources that you have, it becomes theirs because they give you very, the terms they give you for, you know, repayment of the loans and all of that. There are a number of countries who are really debt-trapped. countries that trap with chinese governments and you know after a certain period of time if you can meet these conditions then they take over whatever you know natural resources you have and mind you africa has a lot of natural resources so they end up tapping into all of these things then it comes back to who is benefiting they end up benefiting and I also want to add this monoculture bit I will not we have the lands we have very arid lands which are good but you ask yourself are people who are working on these funds what is the payment terms are they being treated fairly is there some fair trade when it comes here how much is sold how you know you you consider all these things and you realize that it's just a matter of af being sidelined being but I would say that it is not a 50-50 affair realize that most of the time it will I in my estimation it should be a 70-30 70 for the Western powers in quotes Europe Africa ends up being at the less receiving end. Even though in their drafting of terms they say that we are going to help them, we end up helping, I mean Africans end up being the ones helping the Western countries to even grow. And it should even trigger a lot of things why are so many Western powers interested in the continent Africa at this point in time that was that was the way I asked the question of what was the agenda here and the beneficiary in this type of relationship this This is the donor or the people who bring the technology. At the end, we pay the price. That's a summary of what I'm trying to say. The question, before you say your third question, so that you can continue from there. Does these things we are talking about here have any political implications before i go into this particular question i will go back to what she said and that thing is where the whole problem lies why i'm saying it is um it's one of the of your first questions is about corruption. Why the African countries are having low bargaining power, while bargaining with the Western nations is because of corruption. Why I'm saying because of corruption is this. Almost every African country is, let me use the word, blessed. It's blessed with a natural result that when somebody is coming to bargain with you, you stand strong to bargain with the person. Any country bargaining now with Saudi Arabia because of their oil, they know that they are bargaining with, that is, a bulldozer. Let me use that one like that if us is beginning with China in terms of technology they know that oh at least we're they have a level they will begin but the world of Africa makes it because of corruption what they have they put in the pocket the economy is, so they now go out to borrow. And they still, when they borrow the money, they cannot invest it. They will still put the money in the pocket, and this has been happening years, from year to year, from year to year, from year to year. Why the foreign countries come there, take the natural resources, mine them, and then take it outside? So the corruption is the root of this low bargaining power. If they can remove the corruption, whatever they get, they invest it there, then you see development. Coming to that point. That's exactly where I will come in now. Coming to that point, that's exactly where I will come in now and say, these incidents or these things or this structure as it is now, does it have a political implication? If it has, what is it and how do we get closer to it? And what's the solution to it? It has a political implication. The implications are very, very much like I was saying before. The solution to it, let me go to the solution directly. The solution to it is when the Africans will be ready to practice pure democracy. When the nations let me know when I use Africa little not be like Africa's a nation African nations because the way it is in let me use the word let me use an example in Cameroon is not how it is in Nigeria just like just like Mary said before, in different countries, you have different type of regime, that's a regime they have there and so on and so forth. But the solution to it is only pure democracy. Where there is pure democracy, there will be checks and balances. You see those who will check in the activity of the other, the other, the other AMSOB government. You see those who will monitor what the directors are doing. You see how the police will be doing their work because there is pure democracy. And this has been a problem in Africa because, but for the fact that there is still little, little problems in their politics, it makes it difficult for them to fight all these problems. You, dog, tell us. I can say it has not only political implications, it has political roots. political implication is that it has political rules. Because a politician who is elected through the head of external hands and he doesn't do his victory to the people, he doesn't mind where the people are happy or not. He does what he wants. And he is ready to corrupt all those dissidents to do what he wants. But if this politician is elected by the people and he holds his victory to the people, to his people, and he knows that at the hand of his mandate he has to come to the people to say what i said is what i did then he has he will be careful with how he will go but let me throw in something here because we will forget about it in terms of choosing governments governments in the whole continent of Africa, the West has its hand directly in deciding who takes over. Because whoever comes here must fulfil and dance to the tune of those who are giving him the bonus. Take for example the country where you are coming from. Africa. Okay. Take for example Gambia. Take example, there are so many of them, Nigeria, Nduruma, and many of them. Take for example, in what part of the world would somebody as old as Paul Beer would stay all that long in the politics. So I think that's why I'm talking about the political implications. Because of these Western interests, because of the gain they get out of it, they have decided, it's an agenda, I try to say it's an agenda, people may say it's a, what do you call it, a first world theory, how do you say first world theory of English? I've got it in German. Okay. It is an agenda to make sure that we do not develop and grow, because they know if we develop our be dependent be able like Mary was saying to by the negotiation stand our feet they will be begging so they have to make sure they are going to put somebody in power who will do exactly what they want them to do yes so that's my contribution to it I don't know that's what I mean by the political implication. Can I say something? The other problem is that the African Union as a whole is financed by the European Union. put together I mean less than 1% of the ability of their that gross product gross product GDP why can't they take a small part of it and finance African Union and African Union is financed by European if somebody's financing you your hand will always be below not on the top that's the that's the beginning of the problems and those people financing you if a dictator like what are unlike conde try to remain in the power the corrupt they try to corrupt those people coming to observe the elections. And those people who come to observe the elections will go and make reports to the African Union. And the African Union is financed by the European Union. What is the circle? That is the problem. That is why I say that not only the education, but the rules are political too. So I think that maybe from the younger generation has a different approach. How do you say younger generation? Anyway, yes, I'm still in my early 30s, so you are right to say younger generation. No, no, I mean at least in the room, you have a discussion, you are the youngest among the three of us. Yeah, yeah, it's okay. It's fine. You're the youngest among the pre-apports. Yeah, it's okay. It's fine. But you know, Doc said something which, I mean, if the person is the one financing you, they call the shots, you know. So you are the unbanked call. So, I mean, what, I just want to say that yes, indeed political implications are there. If we draft a whole year budget, every African country, I know this for a fact, seeks a certain amount of financial support to finance their budgets every year. Elections are financed more than 60 percent we seek our financial you know for even our elections from the european and the western powers to run our elections when united states of america they were conducting their recent elections did they need africans to come and do this monitoring no but when we african countries are having elections, they bring people from, you know, these places to monitor, go and give, I mean, they have the voice. But if you look in the United Nations UNO, the African continent has 54 representations just in UN so for me I would say that we we have political power but unfortunately because of uh excuse me to say uh low financial power then you realize that you know you can't say much there's a problem in ghana that if you you you have the when you you have a certain financial that's when you can sit with your elders you know when you get there you can talk even though you don't even deserve to be with them yeah you know just because of your first you have The cash, you'll be able to put your voice across. And it's still heard. For me, I just want to also add this, that when it comes to this political stuff, I see a bit of interest. Recently, we realized that the Western powers are having a lot of military operations in African countries, okay? powers are having a lot of military operations yes in african countries okay um two years ago the united states put something across to ghana that okay we want to have our station you know training station in one of the villages then i asked myself if you have your military we are in a global world okay but what is so special with africa that this is where you want to use as your base you know for training and it's not only ghana a lot of other countries have had these proposals where these western powers are bringing their troops in there to have their trainings and all of that i I don't think that is solely all about, okay, we have the interest to help you fight your wars. What wars are going on there that you need to have your people with us? But my point is that if we are partners, as much as you are taking your people back to my region, that's African continent, in the same way, open up and let me also come here this is what partnership is about do not tell me that okay i am interested in your political military stuff i want to help you but when it comes to you know your end you put some barriers that i know we have enough we do not your support. There is something that needs to be broken. There's this barrier that we have created when it comes to the African continent that the entire world has created for Africa that needs to be taken off. And we will live in a wonderful socio-economic and wonderful global economy. We'll be enjoyed by everyone. That is just what I want to say. Okay, that will bring me back to the responsibility because we are talking about the environmental disaster and the problems and the political effect of all these influences do have on our zone. He has mentioned it, for example, in Nigeria, where people can no longer fish, they cannot go to farm, the waters are destroyed, the body of law, they're talking about Guinea, the uranium that has made people die over there, so many of them. There are so many examples we can give to show this catastrophe that is happening as a result of this political policies and system. Now the question, the last question I will ask on it would be, we as voters, we as consumers, we as citizens, be it in Africa, maybe they may watch it, anybody can watch it from there. Or those of us living here, what directly and how directly can we affect a change to that system? Or to help a little bit stopping these effects? Looking at me, you want me to start? I want you to start because you're the last person. Your eyes are still in my direction. Let me just start in this way. I think that continentally, I want to just bring it from level to level. As African continent, we need to rise up. We need to come together. Doc said something that no country, when we mentioned the China bit, not one country can come and say, I want to go and make another country better. And this is China saying, I want to make Africa better. I'm not denying that fact it can happen but I want to say that we as African continent we also have a role to play in the continental circle okay that the entire continent we need to unify we have this African Union agenda 2063 I mean wonderful policies are put there which they want to get to but it starts from somewhere yes yes yes the agenda is for 2063 in the next 63 years and the catchphrase says you may not be living by then and you too I will be there don't worry I'll handle it that's what I said to the younger generation yeah so I may not you may not I might yeah let me just go on so I was saying that continentally we need to put ourselves together this is something one on the agenda that they want a unified Africa. A lot of policies are being put together. I wish that we'll have time to talk more and maybe another time. We have another time. We have another program where we'll continue from today's day because there are four aspects of what we're discussing. And this today is the first one. We'll still come back the next time with some other new people into the forum so we can yeah I mean it will be good so that we even look into more on the agenda on the Africa what we where we want to get to the agenda for 2063 it's a long way but we need to start from somewhere and get there step by step and continentally a lot of things have been put in place and I hope that our leaders do not just make it a paper you know document but some steps will be taken to get there we cannot get there in one decade it takes time and I will also say that regionally let's take West Western African region Eastern African region. There are lots of diversities that we have in the various regional sectors. Regionally, we need to, you know, look at what pertains, what do we have to tackle as a problem or a way to move our region forward. So from the bigger African continent, we come to the regional bigger African continent we come to the regional levels then we come to the national levels the national levels are government I mean our political leaders on the national level I know that there are lots of challenges but if we put in the attitude of wanting to move our people forward, let's put aside the selfishness, it's all about me, this is one big thing that is drawing the African countries back. They are getting the financial aid, but accountability is an issue. Can you imagine when we put together all the financial aid that have gone into various countries in Africa, if there were supposed to be, I mean, concrete accountability for whatever they've given people, I mean, the Western powers have given for their so-called development, they write out to collect these funds for. We are supposed to see tremendous development in the continent in the various countries in africa we do not see that so nationally i say that there needs to be the accountability you know but should be there when it comes to we as individuals who are africans then the natives of af, we always need to ask ourselves, let's not look in the moment. Whatever we are doing, I believe that let's look into the future. What are the other generations, what is it going to be like? Now there's a lot of mining and they are not even looking into the side effects of the craze when it comes to this, you know, in quotes, we use this word in Ghana it says galam say you know by hook or crook we need to get that mineral and they don't care the consequences of getting the mineral whether it's polluting the waters the air whatever it is we need to get the mineral but you ask yourself after you get the mineral what happens if you do not have good health to enjoy all the profits you are getting from selling that mineral what is it for because everything is being polluted then we in the diaspora let me come to us here because i'm sure they will have the chance to listen to whatever what can we do let us not buy the you know the used stuff that austria is going to dump away then we say oh let me take it to my country this will if it is not good for austria it is not good for ghana if it is not good for europe it is not good for africa this is the world we are in why do we see another continent as a dumping site no let us prioritize our own if you are enjoying the air in europe why do you want uh people back home to live in a polluted environment and mind you africa contributes less than five percent to this global emissions that we are seeing now to these global emissions that we are seeing now. Most of the cost of this greenhouse stuff is mostly from the Western powers, Europe, US, but in the end, it is the continent of Africa that are so vulnerable to the majority of the pollution. And unfortunately, they are poverty stricken and they will have to suffer the consequences for being so vulnerable and we can see it everywhere now in the African countries for me I would say that those in the diaspora let's also put ourselves in the situation where what is not good to be done here or to be used here we can start from somewhere let us not take it back home that okay they don't want it here maybe my people can use it if they would not use it here then they would not use it back home so let's start from there okay because um i'm sorry um we have we have to cut it shut because we still have another program. There is a lot to discuss on this. So many people have written books on it and still there are a lot to talk and there is still a lot to say. So Doug. I will just be short and I will ask one question to everybody that will listen to our meeting today. We have, how many continents do we have on this world? I think five of them. Five. തതેরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরোরো� is only in Africa. We make cars in Nigeria and Ghana now. That is putting them together. Okay. No, no, no, it's not putting them together. They mark... Yeah, the innocent in Nigeria. And what is there a guy in Ghana who is producing very wonderful... They're even producing armored vans. I know. You know how to do it. Kantanka. Kantanka, okay. Kantanka, okay. They're producing different... I think it's a short Afi, you know it. Kantanka. Kantanka, okay. They are producing a different... I think it's a short time, not long time. It's a short time, yeah. That is what democracy can bring in a country, where people are free to choose their leader. Where people are free to know what they can do. Okay, that's another. Africa is the only country, even the car produced in Ghana or Nigeria, they have not reached in Africa. They don't even know about Africa. But the one produced in Czech, Skoda, or in Germany or France or in Italy, the one coming out this week, we know it there in Africa. And that's what Mary is saying. And it's those in the diaspora that are bringing this news down there. Not only the diaspora, even the people down there. They bring it. Then we have to unite our forces. We have to unite our... Africa is producing cotton. Africa is producing all minerals Africa is producing all products why can't we have one industry that can produce clothes for all Africans we have cotton why okay now diaspora Mary said it those use clothes here we send it back home That's why Mary said it. Those used clothes here, we send it back home. If we think one second that coming together and creating a small plant of producing clothes, cheaper, we don't need the used clothes here to bring them back to Africa. We can do it. If we think about it. The solution can come, we can produce cheaper clothes, new ones, that we wear on the first of January. We can do it in all countries. And if it's produced either in Ghana or Nigeria, I don't mind. Or Burkina Faso, where cotton is a lot. We can produce and dispatch it in all countries. We will gain from it. The benefit will go to the farmers রেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরের� We are bringing back home used cars in Africa, a car that has less than seven years cannot enter. And people are suffering of it because this decision doesn't bring another way. Like, okay, you can go and import cars from Ghana. It's good. We can finance you. But you say you don't bring cars from Europe that are more than seven years. The people don't have money to bring new cars. It's also a throwback. That's it. Okay. Like you said before, you said you'll make it short, but you'll make it a little bit longer. I'll make it shorter myself. I'll make it shorter. We still went back to what I was saying before, pure democracy. Yeah, yeah. Pure democracy is the answer. That's the summary of the whole thing. Because in pure democracy, when I'm doing something and nobody's checking me, I'm acting there as a dictator. Whatever I am putting, even if I put the whole money in the pocket, money for the development of that region in my pocket, nobody talks, just like Mary said before. If you know that, let me say this concretely now. There are states in Nigeria, Imo State, or some states, they've started it. Instead of allowing the local government that was existing before to be directly elected by the people the governor will now appoint somebody to be to be caretaker committee to be in charge of the local government so that so that they will not be sharing the money that should go from federal to the to the local government for the development just share it and put in the pocket another রেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরের� will even take the money and invest the money in those nations. I am telling you, there are companies that they will build there that will create employment. Some Africans will not be running away from Africa because they will be employed in those places. And then some foreign companies that are now bringing their goods into that country can no more have the opportunity but they are bringing the goods just like you said our people are bringing those things there because those things are still lacking if they're not lacking they cannot be bringing them or the ones that are bringing there the ones that are bringing those produced here that are still new if you check the price there then now somebody will now bring the one that are drinking, those produced here that are still new, if you check the price there, then now somebody will now bring the one that's already used to cheaper price. Let me go for the cheaper one because I don't have enough. So you see that it's somehow... Can I say something in a minute? Yes. I'm coming, I'm coming. I'm coming because it's a very very interesting thing uh actually it's very very interesting and i would want you guys again also to give me time and come back again for this discussion so we can continue but before we go add that thing you wanted yeah i i i yeah i forgot to say this yeah We've talked about the diaspora. Hopefully, I mean, someone in Austria or wherever might hear this, but I want to say that a lot of elections go on and goes on in African countries. And I must say that for me, what i've witnessed in these i mean few years when i i became a registered voter i realized that most of us vote on ethnical and tribal you know lines yes we have reached a point where accountability is key to African continent developing. Sorry, but those parties in Africa have party program. People will not follow. I will say that let us vote, exercise our voting power on grounds of what can this government do for me. Let's stop the tribal voting tribal politics ethnical grounds it doesn't matter if the just look what does the person have to give and i also want to say that as individuals forget about the political dimension let us value what we have let me come down to food and you know let us value our own let us value what we produce it will go a long way to help build our economy it's not only the political powers who have a way of bringing African as African continent to that level from the individual levels we can get there so those in the aspera will do our part i mean sending down the monies and you know all of that but at home let us enjoy what we have let us value put some value on what we have because we have very very worthy and valuable stuff back home and let's not you know downplay what we have thank you I need your two seconds I need your two seconds Africa, let me use the word Africa Africa generally there are only two things they need that can improve Africa. One, good roads. Two, constant electricity. Because lack of constant electricity is making it that even an individual, even if I personally am going to invest there, with which power am I going to power my factory? If there is no good road, how can what I produce now reach from one place to the other? Then you see the problem. And this is the aspect the government should take that money they normally borrow and invest in. When they invest in those fields, in areas now they can it can help the individual to do something if you are sick to come and heal yourself in europe okay so um they have spoken well the most summarily of what is needed i just want to give also a positive aspect but before then I close doctor can you what do you want to say well I can say globally Africa is in a good way to be developed but we have to consider many things. And the young people, the young generation, even the old generation too, has to know that no country can come and develop you. No country can do things like you wanted to do them, if you leave the country doing it, then another country doing it. And we have to be financially independent. We have to finance ourselves. We can do it. We have the means, the financial means. We can do it. To reach this point, we have to banish the corruption. Because the corruption is, I mean, stopping Africa to go ahead. We have to banish the corruption রেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরেরের� against english-speaking countries that is a nonsense for me we have the same background we have the same road and we can go to nigeria i can go to ghana i can go to any other country to liberia or sierra leone no problem to togo to togo no problem why should i have to be if it comes in terms of having the same currency the the French have to put its nose in what concerns Africa. That's it. That's how we can go. Right onto Sinistrata. OK. That's a sign that we are closing. I want to use the opportunity to thank three of you for having the time here for us to discuss the issue. I want to tell our listeners there, Africa is no longer what it used to be. We are moving ahead. For example, there is a businessman in Ethiopia that has discovered the use of bambus to replace the use of timber. Bambus, you can use them to make plates, tables, bed, you can even eat them. You can use them to make clothes, and he is doing it. And he's doing it wonderfully well. There is also another man of Zootopia who has built a factory that is cleaning the rubbishes and using those rubbishes to mold bricks and produce electricity. At least 30% of the electricity in the cities is producing them. Another good was not even on them began to talk again the man closely a place from Mali for the dog who also made the forest, made the desert. A forest, the man who made the desert forest. These are people, pioneers. And in Kenya, you cannot bring used clothes. Is a law. In Rwanda, you cannot carry a plastic bag. It is a law. It can attract up to 30,000 euros. If you're seen on the street with a plastic bag, or if you're producing plastic bag, because they say those things that spoil life. So that's examples of positive things that are moving in Africa. Here in Austria, we are discussing about plastic, but it's already affected in downtown, down country Africa. So with these words, I thank you once again for coming and thank our listeners. Please keep listening to us. We still have to continue our discussion. We have not finished. It's made on four phases. This is the beginning and the fourth phase. I thank Mary for your time, leaving the family coming here and doctor i thank you for also coming here this evening my chef and uh yeah thank you also for leaving the work you should be doing and then Thank you so much and good evening.