ស្រូវាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រ Thank you for coming to the last panel of the day. It's the performance and Animation panel. We have five fantastic presentations in the afternoon. I am Marc-Anet Sola, I will be the moderator in this panel. And first speakers are Flavia Manzani and Manuel Borré. Let me read the title. It's INREA, Exploring New Dimensions in Physical and the Intersection of Performance, Art, Real-time Installation and Extended Realities. Please welcome. Hi everyone, thanks a lot for having us. It's a pleasure to be here today. My name is Flavia Mazzanti and this is my business and life partner, Banuel Bonel. We are two of the three co-founders of eMiria and today we are talking about something that we are working for the past years which is exploring digital realms and intersection of performance art, real time installations and extended realities. So our company is called iMiriam, we are based in Vienna and we are a media company focusing on the development of VR games and interactive installations. But our old practice is also expanding to animation, experimental filmmaking, as well as everything in between media art and extended and interactive realities. We also hold different workshops and teaching at universities, which is really unique for With our company Mira is our style. So we work really a lot with abstract animations after abstract aesthetic most of the time or actually in all of our projects we try to reach between Physicality and virtual so while we are working and images are produced virtually, all the content derives from physical things. For example, movements, race in time, or we use point cloud scans which we further import and transform into digital. So today actually we want to talk to you about one specific case, a study or a project of ours that is called Beyond My Skin, which is a project we've been working with different layers for the past two years. So we began working on this project in 2022 and there are multiple forms. We were also having all the time of feedback between also showing it and then reworking on new layers and bringing again to the audience. So like also really interactive process. So Beyond My Skin is an interdisciplinary project and is exploring the hybrid relationship between the human body and our representation in the digital. But it's not just this experience of one person, but it's a collective experience. So for us it was important to understand also from a post-human context, how can I relate or have a relationship with another person or also interact with another person in this space in between physical and the digital realm and create this connection which works in both spaces. So the project itself is an interactive installation which can be tested by everybody in a festival exhibition context. It's also presenting the form of a live performance with a choreography with two performers and live sound and is also extended to a mixed reality experience, again bridging these physical and virtual spaces. Before we move on, like talking about the project, we want to show a short trailer just to have an impression of how it looks like. Teksting av Nicolai Winther Thank you. So there are a couple of moments I want to start talking about that are really important for this project. So on the one hand is this relationship between the two bodies in the physical and in the virtual space. So the interaction actually starts from the physical space. So the two person or two performers or two visitors are sitting in the same space, but they are not really looking to each other. They are mostly looking each one of the other direction to a monitor. So it's mostly almost a reflection of themselves. And for this, we were also like you interested in this like like canyon mirroring stage of oneself also start recognizing yourself and also the other person and also interacting with the other persons. This interaction starts in the digital, but they are both physical together. So how this so the question actually the beginning was really every time we start interacting with somebody we are always influenced by the physical appearance of this person and this also tries unfortunately like also to go into the virtual space when we start having unfortunately, like also to go into the virtual space when we start having avatars, which look like how we look like, or every time, okay, we can put the hairs and this and so on. So for us, it was really the question, how can I start having an interaction with somebody else, where we just look like this particle and just abstract figures, and where movement actually becomes a form of identity and also self-expression. And for us it was also really interesting because like five years ago when we started working with motion capture we were working on other project and a performer was we were capturing movement and then months later she was seeing herself in really abstract configurations and she was looking at the monitor say okay That's me because she could recognize herself just from the movements and she said like this way of moving This is me and for me. It was really so strong like okay You it's not just about the physical appearance or it's really about movement and the movement itself also makes Who we are and also how we interact with other person. So, starting from this, it was really interesting for us having this as one point. And then it was also this research for this Berührungsmoment. And this is something which I really love to let it in German because this Berührung topic, it's something which is like the touch, but it's also the moment of encounter. And how can we have this moment when we are also in a virtual space or in this space in between? So for this project, we were actually reversing the space. So when the two bodies are close to each other in the physical space, they are really far apart in the digital and the other way around. So when they are physically distant, they become really close to each other in the digital and they start merging and creating lines. So it's important to say the non-verbal communication, what we tried to express with the project. So the performance themselves, they knew already the movements, but a lot happened during the performance and we'll see later some experimentations and setups. It becomes really clear what we tried to evoke not also from our side visually, but also from the performance side. Yeah, so just a little bit of context also in the part that we also like to position or to continue this course on this post-human topic, also looking how through technology we can also keep this discourse of how technology has an influence on our identity and on our society. So in the way also we interact with ourself and with other people. So mostly looking at some Rossi Braidotti, but I was also, we were also looking at Ferneke, which is also a recent book, which was released in 2022. Also regarding this, how can we come close together in a time of digital distancing and also after or during pandemic times, especially when the book was written the time but it's pretty interesting like how can we also reach this this feeling of being close together in in the digital the development itself it was pretty exciting because we were working with interdisciplinary team meaning we both working really strong or forever mostly conceptually I took over the management and the visual part of the project in the way we could create this particles and lines which which you see in the in the project photo we worked with programmers to programmers and the technical artist, which allowed us to be able to create these real-time expressions, real-time animations, and then further, in exchange of the performers, we were able to manifest these ideas. And here you see the setup again, what we talked already. We also had the pleasure to present it at Ars Electronica Deep Space. Here we utilized two times 8k recorded performances, which we projected. This allowed the performance to not only perform the project itself, but also to explore more the spatial context with the visuals. Just a few impressions from the deep space where we also had the live sound. But I will also move to the other, really briefly to the other two layers of the project. On the one hand it's not just a performance, it's also an interactive installations and for me this is, or for us it was really important in this idea of also having these encounters between people who don't know each other. So coming just from an exhibition and then just seeing okay I'm also because of playing with this concept of the distance so being physically close to another silhouette, another person while being on the other side of the room, and then also in this way starting a physical contact, or like start talking to each other in this way. And the last layer of the project is a mixed reality experience. We were working actually this year, and when we add layers, also technology always has to make sense to us, while we are using that technology. And in this sense, on the one hand, was this relation of having these bodies which come actually from the physical space are now, we're in real time brought to the digital and we are bringing them back to the physical space. But at the same time, it was also interesting, not just the relation between physical and virtual, but also between private and public spaces. So starting doing this series of interventions in Vienna, just bringing my chairs, so part of the private space and the glasses, and just sitting there and bringing these bodies actually back to different public spaces. And here again, also this idea of this berührung, this touch, where I love when people pass by and have actually no idea what's going on, but they are physically going through these digital bodies. So it's again this touch, this encounter, which also makes question this relation between physical, digital, private and public spaces. the digital private and public spaces. Yes? I hear really quick the credits. Of course, we needed a bigger team for this project. And it was really exciting, as I said, to work interdisciplinary. This is something we always try to approach in all our projects, and we will also continue in the future. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Now we have time for a couple of questions from the audience. Great. Thank you for this presentation. I was just thinking about the transgressive nature of sitting on a chair on the sidewalk. Did you get any resistance or pushback for your doing this kind of thing? Actually not. It was most of the time sometimes going alone and it was pretty funny just seeing people looking at me and what I'm doing. I think something that people don't know is that with the mixed reality, you can see the physical space. So I have most of the recordings where people pass by and they have to say something or because they think I'm not seeing anything. And actually I was seeing them, everything that they were saying. And I imagined, I already told people that I know, like if you see some TikTok videos, it's probably because like all the young people passing by and making videos of me doing this. Maybe quite connected to your question also about the mixed reality thing and unfortunately it came quite late so I'm sorry, maybe I didn't get all the context mixed reality or augmented reality or whatever in public space plus VR device I call it now isn't it a bit lonely and I mean it looks beautiful and so but what's your take on public participation in a context like that? Actually I am a big fan or I can think I can speak for both. We are big fan of bringing also this technology outside because like it's also something which we always struggle with everything which is digital technologies it's so hard to exhibit outside and and to have a participation just from the audience and people getting interested, generally interested. And I think we had one situation where also just people in the park where they had no idea what's going on, they came and started asking questions about what this is. They didn't even know this is a VR glass. So it was nice also to have Like to have this interest from people and of course we didn't start now a big Movement in this sense, but I think there is a lot of potential Yeah, I think it was also this Experimentation between this privateness, you know, really inside something which only you experience, what only you feel, but at the same time being publicly exposed with this. So everyone sees that you react on something, maybe you have some gestures you need to do to click some things in the application, but you expose yourself in doing something completely private but it's in a public sphere, basically. Yeah. Thank you. I know we're running out of time, so hopefully you can answer this quickly, because I know the time. You said you brought it into an interactive installation. So how does interactivity tie in with your concept? Yeah, the time was too short to explain it properly. Basically, we had four sensors, which tracked the movements of the performers. So two sensors per performer. And at the same time, they also create a 3D silhouette of the performers. So all this one aesthetic what you saw is basically a 3D relief of the body of the performer. So this is everything happening in real time, meaning the sensors see it, they track it, they translate it into the computer, and then you see it on the screen. So basically while a performance... In the case of visitors, once you pass by you immediately feel something happen. And the beautiful thing is that it's not only something visual, you also feel your movements because when you move it's also tracing time and space, meaning it has a delay. So while you move you feel some kind of tracing of yourself, which is pretty beautiful because it creates a special concept. I think we need to close, but thank you for the presentation. Okay, now we'll have a presentation by Yoon Kim, animating tangible narrative, creating application of narrative animation and interactive technologies for playful interactions in the exhibition of ceramic stories. Please come. So first I acknowledge for the traditional owners of Australia where I worked, and I acknowledge the Gadigal people, the traditional owner of the land where I worked on this project. 이 프로젝트에 참여한 나라의 전통적인 존재인 가시글 사람들을 인정합니다 이 프로젝트를 통해 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 존재인, 전통적인 � 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통적인 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전통의 전 Electronica and Expanded Animations. It's been really an eye-opening experience here in Linz and thank you for organizing this amazing event, Expanded Animation Conference and Arts Electronica. And today I wanted to briefly introduce the role of animations and interactive work for the exhibition called Ceramic Stories and Digital Connections, collaborating with 세라믹 스토리 디지털 커넥션을 제작했습니다. 우주 디자인 센터와 세라믹 아티스트와 게스트 큐라이더 일라인 김을 함께 제작했습니다. 여기다 놓을게요 괜찮아요 그래서 애니메이션과 인터랙티브 앱은 일반적으로 작품이나 공간과 공간에서 공개하는 기술을 제공하는 기술입니다 하지만 이 작품은, 아스트라이너스 센터, 세라믹 아티스트, 제가, 그리고 게스트, 제작진이 조금 다른 방식으로 만들었습니다. 디자인센터는 우선, 디자인센터가 인간과의 관계에 대한 관계에 대한 질문을 받았습니다 어떻게 더 탄력적이고觸성적일지 물어보는 것입니다 하지만, 갤러리에 가면 아무것도觸성하지 못합니다 3D 암호가 있습니다觸성하고 느낄 수 있는데, 그렇게 할 수 없죠 3D 액션도 있고, 만족도도 있고, 그런 것들은 안 할 수 있습니다. 하지만, 우리가 할 수 있는 것은 무엇일까요? 저는 디지털 연결의 개발에 집중했습니다. 그리고 새로운 방식으로 또는 다른 방식으로 스토리의 단계를 더해지기 위해 스토리와 연결시켜서, 시리즈를 더욱 더 강화시켜서, 그의 시리즈를 더욱 더 강화시켜서, 그의 시리즈를 더욱 더 강화시켜서, 그의 시리즈를 더욱 더 강화시켜서, 그의 시리즈를 더욱 더 강화시켜서, 그의 시리즈를 더욱 더 강화시켜서, 그의 시리즈를 더욱 더 강화시켜서, 그의 시리즈를 더욱 더 강화시켜서, 그의 시리즈를 더욱 더 강화시켜서, 그의 시리즈를 더욱 더 강화시켜서, 그의 시리즈를 더욱 더 강화시켜서, 그의 시리즈를 더욱 더 강화시켜서, 그의 시리즈를 더욱 더 강화시켜서, 그의 시리즈를 더욱 더 강화시켜서, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 싶었는지, 이 작업을 하고 세라믹 작가 세바스천 콘티는 작품의 미니어쳐인 버튼을 만들었습니다 그 버튼을 사용해서 사람들은 작품의 특징을 표현하는 것을 보여줍니다. 여기 보시면 됩니다. 제가 그 작품에 대해서 간단더 아이돌 같다고 볼 수 있습니다. 캐릭터가 때로는 화려하고 때로는 좀 더 재미있게 보일 수 있습니다. 제 개념을 시작으로 세 바스티안 콘티의 작품을 아이돌과 더욱더 아름답게 볼 수 있는 작품은 세바스찬 콘티의 작품을 아이돌과 다르게 보게 된 것입니다 아키텍처와 세라믹 작품과 다르게 색과 지형, 볼륨, 각각의 작품의 연결이 제가 상상하고 싶은 재미있는 특징을 만들어낸 것입니다 여기 the and then I can also materialise a playful trait. I put videos here. used after effect to create the 그리고 그 안에 맥스 MSP를 넣어서 그냥 이렇게 randomize를 만들기 위해 그래서 관객이觸질 수 있으면 각각 다른 방식으로 멀어질 수 있어요 그래서 이렇게 연결을 할 수 있고, 더 이상은 캐릭터를 부정하는 것이죠 캐릭터를 좀 화�하게 만들어내야 합니다 그래서 이렇게 만들었습니다 그리고 여기에도 이렇게 그리고 버튼을 만들기 위해 제가 한 건 일상적인 작업입니다 여기가 꽤 막힌 것 같아요 하지만 다른 방법으로 계속 해봤습니다 이제 여기 보시면 여기가 세바스찬이에요 그는 낙이로 입지 않습니다 피치 컬러의 셔츠 입고 있어요 그래서 낙에 안 입고 있어요 그리고 그는 그와 함께 공연을 하고 있어요 그래서... 네, 그리고 그것도 제가 어떻게 일을 할지에 대해 알아보는 방법이기도 합니다 그래서 사실은 3개의... 여기 3개의 화면을 넣었어요 the sound is not going to work. So we made actually like a three different screens here. So probably doesn't show all three. So three different screens and connecting with all different buttons so people can actually interact differently. We were thinking of putting some sound, but because 소리가 좀 넣어야 했는데, 오픈 스페이스가 많아서 소리 넣지 않았습니다. 그리고 또 다른 작업은 이것은 캐시 찬의 작품입니다. 캐시 찬은 세바스찬이 가지고 있는 완전히 다른 접근 방식을 가지고 있습니다. 중국의 배경을 가지고 있습니다. 하지만 그는 아스트라일리아에서 자랐습니다 그의 어린 시절의 노스텔지와 캐시 찬스의 세라믹 연습을 그들의 역사적 일러스트를 다양한 종류의 포클로드, 미토 로지스, 그리고 일본, 아시아의 팝컬츠로 연결해 주었습니다 찬스는 정말 대단히 손을 잡은 작품은 매우 흔한 작품입니다. 전통적인, 전통적인 관점과 아이디어를 유지하는 유일한 조합입니다. 그리고 이 작품의 패턴, 그 작품의 캐릭터를 정말 좋아합니다. 두 가지의 인스퍼레이션을 캐시의 작품에서 얻은 것은, 퓨전의 컨셉입니다. 아주 тради션적인 방식이며, 동일한 포프컬쳐의 컨템포러라고 할 수 있습니다. 퓨전은, 가능성적으로, 문화의 종류가 섞인 것 같지만, 잘 연결되어��스트를 가지고 있었습니다. 그리고 그의 세라믹 작품에 대한 매우 잘 연결된 일러스트를 가지고 있었습니다. 그래서 그에 따라서 완전히 다른 방식으로 만들었습니다. 여기 보시면, 제가 스크롤 파일을 만들었습니다. 완전히 다른 방식으로 만들었습니다. 중국인으로 보기에는 좀 이상하지만 저는 브리티식의 문화를 잘 알게 되었습니다 그래서 제가 그녀의 캐릭터를 브리티식으로 만들어보려고 합니다 그래서 제가 그녀의 어떻게 만드는지, 어떻게 하는지에 따라서 그리고 그 위에 AR을 넣었습니다 그래서 AR을 사용해서 만들었습니다 아주 간단합니다.. AR을 사용했습니다........... 2, 3프레임의 버터플라이를 1으로 설정하고, 1을 클렉션으로 설정할 수 있습니다. 그냥 QR코드를 클릭하면 모든 것을 사용할 수 있습니다................ I didn't have time to get the one. So it doesn't really work this like all together. So whenever they just put that on, they just work one by one. Okay, so that's what I've been working with, Design Center and Gallery People. Thank you. Thank you. Now we open for questions. Two or three questions. We have time. Hi, thank you so much for the presentation. I just wanted to ask, by making these artworks more interactive, what type of different behaviors did you notice in visitors interacting with the artists? Was there anything that stood out to you? The fun thing that I just found out, because I was there all the time, most of the time, 저는 항상 거기서 읽는 게 재미있어요. 그들은 더 많이 웃는 것 같아요. 그들은 읽는 게 아니라, 그들은 그냥 읽고, 그들의 개인적인 방식으로 이해하려고 합니다. 우리가 항상, 어떤 작가의 의도인지 이해하기는 좋지만, in a way. You know, we don't really always... it's good to understand what artists' intention, but sometimes, you know, you want to feel instead of just, you know, intellectually interacting. So I just found like they're more intuitively and playfully interacting, which was great. Thank you so much. Hi there, I just wanted to say thanks so much for this presentation. It's really beautiful to see people using natural elements like butterflies, which have such strong meanings not only through Asian cultures, but also European cultures. You know, butterfly and moth is so important in Netherlandish painting and through traditions of Memento Mori. So it was really exciting for me to see it in an augmented reality format. Did you get any responses from visitors about the significance of butterflies for them? Yeah, actually, like, you know, we don't really, often, like, we don't pay attention what's on a, you know, object, what he says, right? So when they actually read about, like, oh, that's the, you know, the patterns that you can find, you can, you know, find from Chinese ceramics, not, you know, others, you know, European ceramics, and they can, oh, okay, so that's a Chinese way? 중국 세라믹이 아니라 다른 유럽 세라믹이 아니라 중국 세라믹이 아닌가 싶었어요 사실은 중국 세라믹에 대한 캐릭터와 패턴을 더 많이 보게 되었어요 유럽이나 브리티스 세라믹을 통해 분류하고 있었죠 or British ceramics. So it was quite interesting to hear, like a kind of like a, you know, kind of over the shoulders, like the old ladies came in, oh, that's it. So it's very fun. So, yeah. One second. One second. I love what you're doing, and I also wonder, it seems like you had your own artistic vision to the work that you were doing. Was there a sense in which you were not in a, I don't think you're trying to do this in a negative way, but you're competing with the artifacts that you're annotating? 이 작품을 안전하게 만들고 있는 것 같지만, 작품을 적용하는 것과 경쟁하는 것 같네요. 아직은 그 작품에 관심을 두고 있는 것 같아요. 네, 사실 저는 작품을 적용하는 것이 좀 어려웠어요. 저는 작품을 적용하지 않았어요. 작품이 적용되어야 하는데, 제 목소리를 적용하기에 강한 것 같아요. 그래서 저희가 꽤 많이 대화를 했죠. 제가 정말 손을 걸지 않기 위해서는, 완전히 다른, 이해하는 것과는 다르게. like a, you know, understanding or interpreting. So yeah, we had like a really good communication from the beginnings and those artists and also design center people and curators were very actively, so the communication was really, really important. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to do this. Yeah, and it seems like it's artists that you actually met and spoke with and you're collaborating with them in some way. So we spoke, we actually met, spoke quite a lot and we agreed and also shared like all I think it's a good question. I think it's a good question. I think it's a good question. We actually spoke quite a lot and we agreed and also shared all the work in progress, whether they agree or not or things like that. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for the presentation. Our next presentation is Margarita Korn and David Altberger. Sorry? Artviger. Artviger. Sorry, my pronunciation okay hello my name is Margarita Kuhl I'm head of the Department of Design at the University of Applied Sciences in Vorarlberg. I've got a background in science and technology studies and critical design, which informs my practice as a critical and systemic designer as well as a transdisciplinary artist. This is David Altweger, my collaborator and a lecturer at our department. Hi, I'm a collaborator and a lecturer at our department. Hi. I'm David. I figure I'm an artist Director and also like an educator and again, I'm working at the design department Yeah, our talk is called sphagnum dances as fathom is the Latin term for mosses and The project we want to present to you is an art based research project which we conducted in Vorarlberg where we addressed the biomes around the university and we tried to collect a lot of material and also in this talk we will explain the extent to which this practice is not intended to be a testimony of a romanticized admiration of nature, but rather a critical examination of scientific procedures and scientific knowledge production and its power implications. So we will try to show you this ongoing endeavor where we also try to integrate post-humanist thought into curriculum design at our department. And we will focus on two projects where we followed an approach by Anke Hamann, an artistic research project which tries to expose the relativity of the researchers gaze by means of producing aesthetic objects. So we tried to really collect and inspect and sort and categorize and yeah collect a lot of data and images of mosses creating a taxonomy and we try to juxtapose it with seemingly effective practices of performance and artistic expression thereby we want to transgress the boundaries between the laboratory and everyday life, as well as the observer and the observed and subject and object and nature and culture. So we also tried to epitomize the concept of nature culture, which was coined by Donna Haraway, which also tries to combine those terms to show that nature as well as culture are socially constructed and are always kind of combined with specific complexes of practices so we tried to use mimesis as artistic strategy and this is the first project I want to show you where we created or we mimicked a laboratory space where people or participants could interact with different specimens. In this project we tried to subvert the relationship between observing and being observed by zooming in and zooming out with microscopic images. And, yeah, we used microscopy mainly to epitomize this process. And we created epistemic things, so the experiment was the process. And, yeah, David will continue to show you the next project so around the university there is amazing places that have Microclimates that have like very very interesting biodiversity so we were like starting to really map out the surroundings further and further and further and This process basically, you process basically involved collecting specimens, but also we did a lot of photography and just taking images and really documenting everything. But in this case, we're very, very aware that these are technical images. We understand them like William Flusser describes them, that technical images are not a representation of reality. It's basically an interaction between me and the apparatus and the mouse and the specimen. But what's really interesting about this is this is about agency. And I'm really interested, we are interested in process philosophy, you know, like where we think about cognition arises through interaction between different actors with varying degrees of agency. And so one of the techniques that we use a lot is Gaussian splitting. It's basically taking a point cloud, but it's like an extended version of that. You can see here. This is, by the way, is a free tool. Luma AI is amazing. And what it does, it creates point clouds, but it's like, instead of just points, it's ellipses. It's very tricky and it uses AI, obviously. So in this case, like the AI becomes like almost a collaborator. And again, these are not scans. So this is an approximation that the AI makes, you know makes based on all of these images. So to me, it's a little bit like memories. It's not accurate, but it's there, so it's kind of like a co-creation with the biome and with the AI, so it's a really, really interesting process. You can use it, you can drop it right into TouchDesigner to create interactive stuff or you can also do it in Unreal. So I think this is really interesting and brings us to what cognition is and what does the human brain do and it does. So we tried to apply the concept of vegetal storytelling. So what do plants tell us? So we really try to find out about the interactions among plants and how they communicate. So this concept really tries to transgress the boundaries which are constructed in Western epistemology. And also it tries to create a different image of plants as active and having agency as plants communicate via different root bacteria and we really tried to also create an installation where people could experience this interaction with plants. So in a way plants have a specific type of intelligence differing from human intelligence and this agency involves responsiveness, adaptability as well as the interaction with the environment. So this brings us to the next project. Yeah, so when we describe in process philosophy terms, we describe human cognition. Human cognition is embodied, embedded, enacted, and extended. And you could also describe the interaction between plants and humans and our ecosystem. We could give these attributes to all of these actors. So we created an installation with Stable Diffusion, and it's basically like a live transmission of our movements into the AI. And this also creates a sort of distributed choreography where all of these different actors with different agencies start interacting with each other. By the way, I'd like to shout out to Dot Simulator, Lyle Hintz. He creates these amazing transmissions between TouchDesigner and Stable Diffusion. stable diffusion. And also, I'd like to say a lot of stuff has happened since I recorded this a few months ago. So, there's new control nets. They're amazing. And I just have to show you, like I recorded a couple of things today. This is like live. Just like feeding it into it without the lower model even. So this is literally just a camera input with prompts and then feeding it into the model. It just have to have really precise language and yeah. But it's like the gestures are transformed into the images which are based on all the material we collected within the last year actually. Yeah, and I mean, we have to say, we're going to speed this up a little bit, but you know, this is also like a process where we approach AI as one of those participants in this system. And we think AI is not just a technology, it's a lot of stories and it's narratives. And the way we use it is really important in what we inscribe into that new technology. So we need to be part of this and we need to be active in it. So this brings us... To our conclusion. So I'd like to, like, why is this so important to us, this terminology, you know, like why do we have to separate between, you know, like why don't we want to talk about nature or human? And I think it's about, you know, like the xenofeminists really, really put their finger on it when they say like, so many people have been suffering, like so many entities have been suffering because they've been deemed unnatural. And I feel like in order to change anything, you know, like we have to stop talking about the environment or like nature or, you know, because it's not separate from us. And also we should approach technology like that. Okay, thank you for your attention. Thank you. Now we have time for a couple of questions. Hello, thank you. It's a quick one. I just saw just now an incredible installation from, I think it's your school, also with sounds, the moss. Are you collaborating? You're the same team. Fantastic. Fantastic. So we had a focus on mosses. Yeah, it was just, OK, there is more moss. Could you maybe, because I can't remember what it was called. It was Fagnum. Fagnum, yes. And Stefan's project is about Fora Moss, which is a specific area in Vorarlberg. Maybe you can say what it is in Nassau. In Vorarlberg, yeah. Western part of Austria. Yeah, thank you. I would be interested in some of the technical details of this installation. What is the role of stable diffusion in here? I guess it's not creating these images 25 per second or... Yes, it does. So basically Yes, it does. So basically there is new models that you can plonk into touch design really. And I mean the fastest way to do it is to train your own LoRa models with Koya. And so all of these pictures that you saw, we isolated them, then we have control sets of other plants and things that we feed into that. And the more precise that model is, that it's like an extension to the base model, and the more precise that is, the faster it gets because it doesn't have to look up. It's like memories when you think of something very often or you said it a million times, then it's not really hard. You don't have to wreck your brain. So basically it's like a top-level thing that's always there. So I have trigger words, you know? And if I invoke those, then that thing switches on. Cool, thanks. I was interested in how you ended your talk, that we are nature and we can't really separate technology and nature and ourselves. We are all one. And seeing the dance sort of person become plant and the plant become person. I was wondering, was that an interactive installation? Somebody was like dancing around and turning into the plants? Yes. Okay. So I want to know what kind of feedback you received after people experience turning into plants or plants turning into them, this merger? Actually, we're at the moment, we're still in the process of evaluation, but we showed the installation in the frame of the Pulver Festival, which is a music festival mainly and now also media arts festival in in for I back and you know it always depends on the prompt you enter so most people so it started to become a really fluid process we started with the plants but then people like entered different things they wanted to become other people that was a very interesting observation for me because they didn't want to stick to this yeah to our preset so they they I don't know they so but I think the interesting thing is if you really have this embodied experience where you kind of can connect to these different shapes and and yeah really experience this this merging that's what that's what the first observation was but I don't know if people really yeah start reflecting on those epistemological things you know but that's our philosophical background basically I just like to add I think we need to be closing soon okay so one of the things like when you're engaged with this longer I've done it with a couple of people and what I was comes up is it's a little bit like puppetry you start like seeing what it does like to that movement and the other thing is like thing is really sometimes like dreaming. Because it always surprises. Thank you very much. Our next speaker is Steve Jones and Alexandra Abad. The paper he's presenting is Lexicon de Plantas, Lexicon of Plants, Cynicality and Participatory Community Experience in the Immersive Animation Installation. You're welcome. Hello, thank you for having us. I'm Alejandra Abad and this is Steve Jones. I'm a visual artist and he's a musician and we're both professors and this was a project we collaborated on. So Lexico de Plantas is a large-scale audiovisual and site-specific art installation that immerses the observer in the realm of poetry through layering memories from the past with contemplations of the present and the possible futures. It features transformations of drawings into animations, and these are projected onto paper sculptures as seen in the photo. of drawings into animations. And these are projected onto paper sculptures, as seen in the photo. It features conceptual and collaborative activations and collaborative breakdown of the barriers between the artist and the audience by sharing community-sourced stories relating to the memories of plants. This work invites the audience to engage with the complexities of memory and migration and belonging. It explores the magical realism through the lens of belonging and mutual compassion as part of collective wellness. Here you can see an original poem typewritten by my grandfather, Jose Colmenares, in Caracas 1949. I'm using this as a source of this installation and as a educator and advocate for nature, he had this sense of veneration for the nature, and the poem creates a sense of remembrance of the past, exploring the significance of reclaiming memory in the present. And while the memories of immigrants often are to assimilate to the promise of modernity. This is also carrying the possibility of erasure, trauma, and the exploitation of both the land and the body of immigrant stories as the communities need to make sense of a new land. So the poem Illusions or Illusiones responds to life in Caracas, a busing city given the economic growth of Venezuela in the 1940s. By reminding the audience that any perceived or real gains can be illusionary or temporary, we are being aware of the dual dramas related to the human body and the natural bodies that we can diagnose and work towards a collective treatment of social ills. The project began with my hand and my memory. So you can see nine memories here of a garden in Venezuela. And this was my grandfather's garden. These were then made into animations with elements of laser cut objects. The community then could participate with me inside the installation space via QR code, and it had a prompt that simply asked, what's your memory related to plants? And the participants used mobile phones to share their memories and here are some examples of these memories and it it kind of also had these scenes that had the translation of the poem that people could take home. We developed the musical score together here using Alejandra's grandfather's quattro, a four-stringed instrument from Venezuela, which elevates the personal sentiment, nostalgia, and sense of reverence in the work, along with the inclusions of specific sounds from nature that would be familiar and instantly recognizable to Venezuelans to invoke Proustian memories of association. Genre-wise, the score participates in folk traditions that elevate the memories and experiences of common people. Venezuelans regard the quattro as the country's national instrument. The sound immediately evokes a sense of reverence in the listener for both human workers and their relationship to nature given the quattro's central place in the folk music of the country other sound elements include textural synthesizers and field recordings of singing frogs and various birds to create a lush and vibrant atmosphere brimming with life this fusion of visual and audio elements immerses the audience in the complexities of memory migration, and the dynamic interplay between art and nature. Each of these elements invite the audience to reconnect with the environment. The sound mirrors the visual progression and tempo of the animation, bringing the audience in solidarity with the folk underpinnings of the musical score. with the folk underpinnings of the musical score? The installation features three different projections on each wall in the gallery space. On the main wall, there's an interpretation of the poem. Oh, sorry, I'm going, I'm a little nervous. The other visual installation contains various interpretations of memory through laser cut vellum paper that are seen here. The animated cycles of music and composition opens the space with the poem, which appears floating in the center of the space. And the poem was digitally scanned and then vectorized and then laser cut. The gaps allows people to interact with the poem or at least a digitalized version of the poem and through the openings people started playing with this and started interacting with the other interpretation of the poem that was animated in the main wall. The physical poem floats and has looping text of the poem, creating a mask of solid paper with the open cuts. This is the gallery space. It's 20 feet tall walls, and it features different projections like I mentioned and it combines the text and the animations. This is a physical manifestation of the type written poem through the text and yeah it took a team to put it together. The left wall features hand-cut shapes in a layered paper sculpture that cascades in front of a second animated projection. This animation is called Flora and contains paper-cut color pencil drawings made into a stop-motion animation. This section emphasizes the ephemeral nature of creation and uses nine drawings that refer to the memories of plants from Alejandro's grandfather's garden. This video loops after two minutes and seven seconds and deconstructs the cycles of hand-drawn memories, recomposing constituent elements into new forms in a manner that mirrors the cyclical process of nature. That is, the natural world transforms into drawings, and then the drawings transform into animation. The drawings are cut, rearranged, edited, and then projected onto 20-foot-tall hand-cut hanging paper sculptures. Each transformation and reiteration combine to make new imagined shapes, and these forms in turn prompt ideations of a new and hopeful symbology. The third wall features a video titled Memorias which features projections of community source memories that are related to plants. This installation was on view from February 8th to May 18th and on the closing day we selected memories from the audience that shared, and we reinterpret these by making readings and also creating a musical score to allow people to reflect the memories and then invited the audience to join us to continue sharing stories. And these are some of the pictures. For the one off musical performance, we layered in live instruments and vocals over the installation soundtrack that continued to play in the background. This created a unique and welcoming environment for the participation. At the end of the performance, the audience was invited to share additional memories related to plants. This activation provided a space for reflection and connection where people could listen and share via familial remembrance and then continue to connect with one another after the performance. This project opened the possibility of ideation for new environmental futures by really remembering those who came before through storytelling. A lot of people of diasporas in Florida, so the stories range from grief to the appreciation of relationships with those who came before us, and the wisdom to maintain that connection with nature. And to conclude, we will show you a little brief video of what that was. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Now we are again, round of questions. A couple of three questions, we have time. Very beautiful work. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the visual design elements in the animation. So mirror symmetry and radial symmetry often play a role in a number of different cultures, you know, spiritually or, you know, psychologically, it has some power there. So how, why did you make a decision to use that type of representation in your animation? That's a great question. So, yes, when I think of memory, I think of the fragmentation that happens. Even if I try to, excuse me, recreate a drawing, it's going to get lost. And I think how we process things or how we see things get reversed. And I'm very interested in that change that happens with the visual information. And also this idea of like the analog and then the digital, how it's just also an interpretation of that. And so besides all that exploration, also the cycles that come with symmetry are seen in nature, but also within ourselves um the rotation of the sun the cycles of the season so it's all playing into this like duality um kind of like what you're saying emphasizing the spirituality of it and that intersection thank you yeah thank you for the beautiful work. I was wondering a little bit about the interactive part. So as a participant, what exactly could I control? Was it like really the text or could I also control the lights or like the projection? Could you elaborate a little bit on that? Yeah, so it's very simple. It's text-based, so people could add to the stories. So you would have to wait for a long time for your story to propagate. And actually, it was very labor-intensive, because I actually had to continuously update it. So this is where, if I were to do it again, I would use a lot of technology for it. So yes, people were able to bring their stories into the other projection and then also at the closing night, they could continue to bring ideas into the project. So yeah, they're literally participating in the content creation of the piece, not just modulating the creation, but creating the actual content, at least on that one wall. And it was there for four months, so it continued to grow. Okay, last question. Hello. So, very nice. I'm interested in knowing how was the combination with the sound? So, the animation, the sound, and the generation of the content. Yeah, maybe you can tell us more. Yeah, I basically acted like a film score composer taking direction from the director. She told me exactly what she wanted, what her vision was, and I tried my best to create that vision. But we've worked together for many years, so that's becoming sort of second nature by this point. But the idea of creating the folk culture, folk is very important to us, on a sort of class level as well as an access level. And then the incorporation of nature, and as was mentioned in the previous discussion, breaking down the binary human-non-human, the sound imitating nature, being in nature, it is nature, we are nature. So that was sort of the process. And we intentionally created a meditative loop to kind of, when you enter the space, it did activate this sense of wanting to share. Also by revealing my most precious poem to the public. So it's almost like a door or portal into, oh, this is very vulnerable, very emotional, where I think a lot of work sometimes is not about emotions. This is all about emotions. So, yeah, it's a visual poem. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Applause for this great project. Okay, we will go to the last presentation of the afternoon. afternoon. Rewa Wright is presenting now towards the Ecodigital Real-Time Animation with Plants, Data and Sound. Hello everybody, my name is Rewa Wright. I'm an artist based in Mianjin, Brisbane. I'm originally from Aotearoa, New Zealand. I'm part New Zealand Māori, part Croatian, part Welsh, so I have a lot of different cultures within me and these tend to find their way into my work with my group Uncalculated Studio. We're a bit of a family group, so my partner Simon does the audio recording and my daughter Mariana does some of the design. But I'm actually the one who is not shy from the family, so that's why I'm speaking with you today. I'm also very aware that as the last presenter of the whole symposium I'm the only person really standing behind all of you and a beer and a glass of wine right so I've set a timer and I won't be going on for too long so hopefully I'm Oh, thank you. Good. So we work in a variety of mediums. Since probably about 2014, we've been looking at ways to fold in the environment with technology. A lot of the method for this has come out of my background as New Zealand Māori, so we have an idea of plants actually having a deep connection with humans, and we have genealogies that also involve plants, geology, whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa whakapapa this sort of ongoing project it's really something that's come with my cultural identity the concept that we are embedded within nature and not only that that we are able to communicate with non-human forces in a meaningful way so just this is our most recent work it was actually shown our last week in Federation Square, Melbourne. So this is a large-scale animation called Cosmic Signals, where Simon took sonifications from the NASA database of quasars, pulsars, mice galaxies, different galactic phenomena, and we used that to drive our real-time animations. Part of the intention behind our work is to bring people closer to the environment around them in a way which isn't to do with simply visually replicating our representations. So I'm just going to play So I'm just going to play a little bit here. Because the screen was so large and in a big public place, it actually was without sound, even though it had a very deep soundtrack with these cosmic sonifications, these signals. But the idea about it is to actually also think about pulses and rhythms which are non-metrical, so arrhythmic, atonal processes, which are really from a different system of sonics than the system of sonics we have from the human side. So from the human side we tend to have metrical compositions where there's rhythm. Everyone is familiar with meter in music, metronomes, you know, keeping the beat. That's why we have, you know, drum machines and drummers. But of course when you're thinking about the natural environment and phenomena such as cosmic signals or plant signals, which I'll move on to next, this is actually very arhythmic. And so it can be quite jarring for humans to actually listen to these sounds because they can be so atonal and so arrhythmic. So this has been an interesting part of the project is to try to use these sonic phenomena to actually drive the animation but in a way that is not always visible. So how we start is we tend to work in our studio so we have plant companions really who live with us I have a very love of vines you can probably see all across the back wall we have a very large vine system and We have a capacitive touch sensors that connect up to the plants and they actually sense their signals in real time and then those real-time signals drive our animations. I started with this series, I was working a little bit with my cultural heritage. As Māori we have a lot of woven nets for fishing, things like eels and different types of fish depending on the netting. But of course also through computational art there's a really long history of mesh topologies. So this work was also about translating some of those ideas such as a mesh topology from computational art and meshes from traditional weaving together. So this work has been shown in various mediums. Currently it's technically driven by Touch Designer, but actually when I started the series earlier I was using Unity for all of the interactions, earlier I was using Unity for all of the interactions and it was actually a mixed reality piece originally with a head-mounted display from HTC Vive. So how do we add the human composed music to this? Well it's an organic process where we actually let the plants emit their signals in the studio and then Simon converts the signals to MIDI, he's adding in where we actually let the plants emit their signals in the studio, and then Simon converts the signals to MIDI, he's adding in different VSTs and plug-ins, and improvising alongside the plant music. So essentially what you have is a situation where the plants are triggering the human composer to modulate with them and to harmonize with them. And that can be quite difficult because of course the melodies that plants give out are very atonal. So they're not on any particular scale. Plants have not read Bach's well-tempered clavier, so they're not aware that there's a very structured western scale system they're supposed to follow. So often the sounds are actually quite jarring for the ear and they can be very, very hard to follow. So often the sounds are actually quite jarring for the ear and they can be very very hard to follow. But ultimately with this piece we ended up making it a large-scale installation for LCD screens. So this is a more recent iteration shown at the International Symposium of Electronic Art in Meandering Brisbane. It's also been premiered as a projection mapping at the Aotearoa Digital Arts Symposium in Whakatū Nelson last year. And we've performed this as a live work at a sound kitchen at Prague Quadrennial, where we had a couple of plant companions who we were co-composing with live in a really wonderful downstairs cabin space in Prague. And as a rendered video file, it's been part of the decolonial art exhibition, which was a SIGGRAPH Los Angeles exhibition curated for digital arts community SIGGRAPH. Just a little taster there. We have a lot more on our website but I don't want to go over time. And here's a little bit of what the work is like live. So you can hear in the background we have the human music which is composed metrical to the beat, you know something between reggaeton and techno and dancehall. Simon writes a lot for Jamaican dancehall artists, he has quite a few albums which have been working with Caribbean artists so he has that style himself. You can see in the front I have a plant which is connected to a capacitive touch sensor. So I'm modulating my body frequency in relation to the plant signal as well. So that's how it sort of combines. And this is in a Cave 2 cylinder, so another interactive version. And this is as a projection mapping at the Aotearoa Digital Arts Symposium. So how do we work with sound? Well, first we get some recordings, we get some signals, they can be real time. And then Simon works with them through a pitch over time kind of diagram in LogicX. Sometimes we record in the field, so this is an ongoing project at Joshua Tree where we're looking at Joshua Trees from a sonic perspective of health. So we're kind of mapping a certain area and we're identifying the health of particular trees based on their signals. These are signals from a range of different Joshua Trees. So as you can see, they have a really arrhythmic pattern. Each one of these tiny dots is actually a note. So that's a MIDI note and or that's a plant signal transposed to MIDI. So you can see there's a very very fast pace, it's more like a wave kind of a diagram and it's certainly something that would be very different from say a classical Western notated music piece. So, oh and this is a data visualization, I will be showing this at the end of the year at VISAP IEEE in Florida. And I think that probably concludes my time, so thank you so much for the kind invitation. I had the luck to be in Brisbane and I saw the installation. Did you? You were in Brisbane? Yes, yes. Fantastic. And also, I'm also participating in the visa. Maybe I see you in Florida also. Okay, thank you for the presentation. And we have here the first question. Thank you. My question is not necessarily only directed to your presentation, but three of them that I saw now in the last hour. But also in yours, there was quite a strong usage of kaleidoscopic images, so to speak. You know, those using in digital way, this is usually using mirrored images, which to my mind or from my feeling quite often go away from nature. I mean maybe it's just a personal interpretation, but maybe just as a question, dealing in a project with nature, which some of the last, in the last hour we saw was the case. And it's just, maybe it just, this this is my interpretation what's your take on that oh okay well it's interesting because uh there's this uh fairy forest folk called the patupaiarehi and i can only really explain why i've used a kaleidoscope if i go back to this little ancestral figure so they're like a demigoddess figure. Think of a forest fairy, okay, but it's a New Zealand, Maori, northern tribal thing. So they're called patupaiarehe, and they hang out in the forest, and they have a third sight. And this third sight is like a kaleidoscopic vision. So ever since I was a little girl, I've had this fascination for kaleidoscopes, and I know it might seem strange, right, but I think as an artist you know you have all your baggage that comes with you and then you have your research side where you're like okay I have to do this you know I'm going to turn this into a research project that can be validated by my peers and that other people will benefit from but you always have the little things that are close to your heart so that's actually since you asked no one ever asked me this, but this is why the kaleidoscopic vision, it's third sight from this forest fairy folk from my cultural heritage. Thank you. Thank you. So I'm interested in your working with plants, your co-creators. I know I'm also kind of a plant person. I live with plants. They're all around me all the time. And I know that my presence affects the plants, and the plants' presence affect me. And so how does that relationship affect the outcome of these signals and how does that factor conceptually into your work? That's an excellent question and I'm glad you brought this up. So absolutely, there's a lot of research to show that plants and humans are affected by the presence of one another. And there's a fascinating artist called Mia Masaoka who some of you might have heard of. She's a wonderful Japanese performance artist and musician. And from the 90s, she was actually working with body area networks. So body area networks where she was approaching plants and actually had a bunch of sensors attached to them, and her presence was actually causing them to signal. And what she noticed is when she left the room, they went quiet, and when she came back to them, they started signaling again, right? So absolutely absolutely we have this co-presence and and we don't know it right because it's usually not visible if we're walking in a forest or whatever the plants are actually aware of our presence right they know when we're walking past and they're signaling we don't know what they're saying or why or doing, but there's communication going on. And these forest ecosystems have a communication going on all the time, it's just we're not able to visibly access it. So that's certainly part of what we're trying to do with this work by sonifying the actual signals coming out of plants in the presence of humans, is we're giving people this chance at understanding signals as visible. But also, you know, generally, you know, it's important, I think, right now for every artist to make some kind of a difference with our climate crisis, you know, and so my hope is that in some small way this work with plants are talking about bringing people closer to plants and how we do have this innate communication that we're not aware of. My hope is that that will maybe inspire some more people to take some action, to plant some trees, to become conservationists. So yeah, that's I suppose the background. The background, yeah. Thank you. Is any last quick question? I suppose the background, the background, yeah. Thank you. Is any last quick question? I don't see any hands. Then we will conclude the panel. Thank you very much. Thank you.