I Jaaa! Jaaa! Jaaa! Jaaa! Jaaa! Jaaa! Jaaa! Jaaa! Jaaa! Jaaa! Jaaa! Jaaa! Jaaa! Jaaa! Okay, bis Rita das für uns fertig macht, können wir anfangen, oder? Wir können sagen, guten Abend oder guten Abend, das ist egal, wenn die Leute uns heute sehen. Der zweite Episode von Super. Ja, Super, sicher. Nicht ein Gast, nicht zwei Gäste. Drei Künstler. Eins, zwei, drei. Künstlerinnen. Künstlerinnen, sorry, sorry. Sie sehen, ich habe schon verdammt. Können wir sie sich vorstellen lassen? Ja, drei. Künstlerinnen. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Can we let them introduce themselves? Yeah, sure. Please. So, guys, we are from the same, I think, department, Interface Culture, from Kunst-Junior Linz. And then we have our dear friends and colleagues today. We can say Sarah, Christina, and Barbara. Then we want to let you introduce yourself for sure for us today if you would like. Okay, so here we go. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Yeah, I'm the artist in the middle. I'm Kristina Tica, your colleague from Interface Cultures at Kunstuniversität Linz, which I also finished last year. My spirit is still roaming around here, which is quite a pleasure then to, you know, share a bit of food here and talk since all of the shared memories of being here and doing the practice here is quite fresh. I'm a visual artist, mainly currently working in new media or using tools that are kind of based on machine learning or something that we can say under the roof of AI, artificial intelligence, also from this critical and theoretical discourse and we'll I guess talk about that further later on and yeah yes yes I'm Barbara Yazbets and I'm from Slovenia and I also just recently finished interface cultures I graduated last year and I mainly worked during my studies with like toy hacking and I was curious during my studies with toy hacking and I was curious about different materials. I worked a lot with latex and I also work a lot in exhibition organizing. I work as a curator in Slovenia mostly. And now this year I also started to work for Kunstuni. I work as a project manager for the campus exhibition. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah, and I'm your colleague, or your colleague from Interface Cultures, Sara Konjerek. I would also say I'm a visual artist, but dealing with multiple types of media as I guess all of us do. I have a background in graphic design and photography which I think also went into my current artistic practice which during the last few years was mainly focused on like virtual environment building kind of like video game mini video game types and now since two or three years I would say I'm working a lot with dancers from Bruckner only for example but also now currently with a Swedish dancer incorporating different technology to make it also interactive for the audience and the dancer yeah and on the side I work as a graphic designer, also freelance, kind of. That's nice, super. I was chatting with Ahmed before, and we were kind of wondering, like, how did you end up in Linz? Why Constroni? How did this like, born out of the... Good question. For me, my parents decided to have a child in Linz, and that's why I'm here. That's good, that's a... Made in Boer. You are from Linz, that's why I'm here. That's good. That's a maiden voyage. So you are from Linz, right? Yeah, born and bred in 4040 Ufa, not Linz. Okay, and how you heard about Kunst-Union, if we can say? I mean, I always knew it existed and I finished my bachelor's during the, I think it was the second lockdown of the pandemic. Before that, I did the programming one course at Interface Cultures, and it really sparked my interest, even though it was quite challenging because I didn't have a laptop back then. So I would take notes of the code in an actual physical notebook. Jesus Christ, you're a living hipp at home she's a hippie yes the horrible hipster with the typewriter at the coffee shop and then at home i would transfer it into the you're compiling literally that's nice i wouldn't recommend that wasn't her entrance portfolio. You were giving the calls. Yes. So that's how you get interested in interface culture or multimedia. Exactly. I mean, I didn't really stay that much with coding. It's not my field. I'm not a programmer. Yes, I use it for certain projects in small ways, but it me a kind of like a basis and sparked an interest that's nice yeah and for people whose parents didn't procreate in linz yeah uh i decided to move here in like 15 days also halfway through the after the first lockdown it was July August okay I had I knew nothing about lens except that's in Austria and there is ours electronic of course which was kind of this yeah little flame where all the mods go when it comes to our tech and science scene right in Belgrade where I come from Serbia Belgrade I finished the first painting so i come from painting and some other traditional media then i worked in or still work in video art and then at some point i did a master's which included besides video work creative coding uh which hooked me on to the topic of machine learning and as at the time new tools were emerging, so on. Did some projects that were kind of recognized within and that were invited to be exhibited at Ars Electronica during lockdown so it never happened physically. But at the same time, as I randomly applied to Kunst-Tunnel Reins because just somebody mentioned, oh, there is interface cultures. And I was like, okay, I'm already going to Ars Electronica. Maybe I should check it out. Maybe I should apply something. And I kind of forgot about it because I was just finishing my first master's. So I was not a student for just 15 days. Then I got accepted because I was on a wait list. This is not happening. And all of a sudden, should I go? Yeah, I guess i should go the less i know the better sometimes and uh just pack my stuff uh and uh yeah instead of the work actually i traveled here and started the studies so yeah it's kind of farce electronica's fault or yeah and yeah here we are four years later yeah that's nice yeah and i did actually my bachelor in finland so i was living before moving here for seven years in finland and i did there mostly like i was focused on video art like 360 video and i always wanted to make my art projects more interactive. And I got to know this program because my sister studied the same program 10 years ago. So I already, yeah, she was in Fabrizio's generation. So I knew already Fabrizio and Tiago and Krista and Laurent from before. So I decided let's keep this family tradition. And I also applied. Generations, you know. It's like Fabrizio also play. Generations, you know? It's unbelievable. Can I ask something that came up to my mind? Your sister is Masha and is she the girlfriend of Blaže? No, that's Daphne. That's Daphne? That's Daphne. I think my sister is doing the robotics workshop. Yes, my sister is coming next week for the robotics workshop. So take her class. I think we subscribed, both of us. I already finished it last year. It was really interesting. I'm the young one here. I'm the first year. They are all senior students. They finished it. We are allowed to ask questions like how did you end up here? In the first year, they are all senior students. They haven't finished this one. Are we allowed to ask questions? Like, how did you end up here? How did I end up here? So I was supporting a band of friends in Bolzano. And then we were smoking a cigarette outside and I was like, guys, damn, I really need to find a master because I don't really know what to do. And this guy was like, I know another friend who went to Linz to study interface cultures and now he's working. So just give him a phone call and hear what he says. Then I was at the phone with Giacomo. Oh, okay. And then we spent like two hours on the phone. Giacomo giving me tips and I visited here in July a few days before I got paralyzed in Vienna, but I still came here. Crazy story. I like the program everyone seemed very about it like and Like a few months later. I'm here with Ahmed. Yeah, but you visiting actually invested us in In the time of us Ictronica meetings, right? Yeah, and also I'm not sure if you were there as well You went there was the time Times Up. Ah, okay. Last summer. No, no. It was such a hot day. I remember I was sweating my ass off. Yeah. And I remember your first day in Linz was my master TC. Yes. And I saw you with your tiny jackets and I asked if you're okay. Such a short time. I was in the kitchen and she she was like looking from there saying wow it's snowing and she was really cool about this what you are not scared actually yeah yeah yeah jackets like maybe this i remember but it's always happening also we're like in berlin uh she was with us as well and and well and Ahmed was just like a t-shirt or something. It was a mistake, you know. Sometimes I underestimate how the weather is, like comparing to where I came from. But it was a good chance. For sure there would be some sun. It's impossible that they don't have it here. For sure they will bring it somewhere, you know. And then we went shopping together. Yeah, this was a smart idea, you know. Going shopping from second hand. A bromance moment between me and Ahmed, just like trying stuff. And then we went shopping together. This was a smart idea, you know? Going shopping from second hand. A bromance moment between me and Hamid, just like trying stuff. Yeah, but actually that's why we see because we see a lot of similarities between your art practice anyway and somehow like your background that's why we thought about this really nice idea that we have you today with us actually and to get more inside your like your art practice and also like your taste and how this related and I think you ordered us some nice food right we'll see about that yeah do you wanna do you wanna tell us we should keep it as surprise yeah let's see because it's also gonna be a bit of a surprise for, what we think we ordered and what we got, because we picked a little bit of everything, kind of combined finger food, so we actually still talk and not only just eat and pretend we didn't hear any questions. Okay, okay. So we will see that maybe we will present what's coming up. So you were in the mood today to try something new it seems like right because you are not you don't know exactly 100% what you ordered yeah it's a black box yeah kind of okay and why you decided this food uh this cuisine or this kitchen yeah we are not allowed to promote the restaurant so we can talk about the kitchen itself or the cuisine or this kitchen that you ordered from. Nutritive diversity. Do you go there often? Do you eat in this place often? I was picking it up. Now I'm going to brand another thing. It's an app. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to go to go. We will be bit anyway. I said it. So after I said it now, yeah, that's the only fruit I tried at this restaurant before. It's so cheap. But it's really nice. Yeah, absolutely. So you tried before? Yes. Sure. And you, Sara? I've ordered a couple of times. Okay. I never ate. Usually too much. You never? You should. Oh, okay. I think I also tried. You tried also? Of course I tried. Also, you sent me there. Yeah, I sent you there because it was the only place open that day. Angela, my girlfriend, was visiting. She was also here the last episode, I say. Angela. Yeah. And I was walking around and we were on the tram and then Ahmed sees us and he texted me, just go to this restaurant. And we had such a good time. We wanted to have some doughnut i think you have also funny story there because you wanted some shisha yeah actually yeah i want to see it at the end yeah exactly so i wanted to smoke it enough yeah we see what we got i would not mind actually we have shisha yeah i mean either i think it's not allowed in dof deva that's easy is it allowed to have shisha in the show? It's an idea though. Or just to run fast straight from the restaurant. Since both of you tried it before, right? Why these flavors? What's these flavors remind you of? What's made you feel like this taste? I think it's far away from where you are originally from somehow, right? Or not so far far i don't know kind of have the opportunity if i had the opportunity also in belgrade between kind of you know the well towards austrian cuisine but also all the way and with heritage of still ottoman empire let's say yeah we are inclined to all kinds of food and it's also Mediterranean and Middle Eastern food. So, I mean for me it was as I said like mostly yeah nutrients it's nice it's light it's kind of refreshing again you can combine from meat to completely vegan things without any like... Is that Ottoman spice you know? Just wake up and be like I'm feeling Ottoman today. Yeah, Turkish coffee of course and if I started with that coffee, then I... That's how the day has to end. I'll make some for you, maybe. Okay. But yeah. That's from my perspective. It's like just a fine choice here in Linz, which sometimes is a bit limited choices, I guess. Spicy food? Actually, yeah, we're talking about it yeah because as i said before we went to berlin together me i mean and you and i was really struck by the the diversity of food available in berlin and it was like i have to move to the city i have to say you went to a restaurant which was top notch. We were there like four days in a row. The Lebanese one, you went there? In the end, I didn't go with you at any point, but I did go. It was great. Yeah, it was really good. I noted the recommendation. I was around. It was a delicatessen. Yeah, that's true. But what else? This food, it's similar to you, but for you, Sara, is it somehow near to you where you had most of the days? I mean, I've never thought about it so deeply. I think it's a Syrian restaurant, but I'm not sure. It has Syrian specialities. And I generally like Middle Eastern cuisine. And yeah, no big reason, I just like the food. Okay, it doesn't have to be deep actually, because anyway, it's like food, you know? I like it. I didn't expect a deep question, like what are the reasons? This was not on the script, you know? It was not scripted before, you know. But yeah, but I think hummus is something famous, I think, about this kitchen, right? I think most of us fried it. Yeah, most of us eat it. Yeah, survives longer in the fridge than any dairy product, you know, as a bread spread. But use hummus with everything. Yeah, as a dip, as a bread spread, as use hummus with everything, as a dip, as a bread spread, as a something to hold whatever the food is here, okay, Andrea, now, this is the moment of the show, you know, please, this is the moment of the show, actually, whereas we have this magical window, we open it, and then we have a flag, yes, yes wow and then this is how we get the food actually food food food food so before we start do you want to tell us what you ordered today for us what you wanted us to try or what you wanted let's see what we have here yes we have quite some pita bread i was hoping i, I expected more, but I think that's enough. Yeah, it's a lot. Some fries, some butter, because it's hard to decide between just fries and red potatoes, sweet potatoes, right? There is some falafel, yeah. What's underneath? Some grilled stuff, there should be some meat, onion onion and we will see what's underneath right also the wine leaf rolls with meat and rice right there oh it's here okay so yeah kind of something for everyone hopefully and he's falafel i see that yeah yeah well they're very good from the hummus of course almost of course i think it's a really diverse selection. Like expressing or like exactly reflecting what we are doing here. Of course. Should we start? So where to dip our fingers first? Yes, exactly. The fries or the camano, yeah? I'll take the basic one. Damn. Mmm. Who wants? You want chips? Oh, I have chips. Do you want some chips? I want some chips. I take the basic one. Yeah. Mmm. Who wants? Yes. Oh, I have chips. Do you want some chips? I want some chips. Can I have some chips? Sure, bro. Okay. Don't even ask. Should we dip them in the... Is it okay if I dip? Yeah, of course. Let's see if we can also find a way to spread it. There's some dip also here. Bibi. Oh, it's there. Nice. Well, she'll try some potato. Mmm. Wow. Well, here's a bit of a surprise. They want to dip it in the hummus. Should we bring the hummus for you? We can just say it, you know? Just ask. Potato. Yeah. Yeah. You want again? Want another one? Okay. It's a good cheese, huh? Nice. So good. I'm shameless. They went straight for the meat and it's good. Yes, absolutely. This place never disappoints. And this is like really big, you know? Jesus. Okay. Okay. So scary. Embrace it. It's interesting. It's interesting with the content. You have to be fearless, bro. Just... Okay, so scary! Embrace it! It's interesting with the captain! You have to be fearless, bro! Just take it in, huh? I have to think about it, you know, before I do it. They are a bit compressed. Zip! It was a very... No one did. It was a very... I think you guys have to try this also as well. And this might be a problem. When we order food that is this good, everybody goes quiet. You know, we just give up on talking. We're so focused. So next time, just take some cheap pizza from any corner. Can you pass this to Pipi? I think also... Pipi? No, I can't stop eating. Oh, maybe this is a chili one? But it didn't give us any... Autofocus. Yeah. I don't know why actually. This is really bad. We can ask for the front food because we have all of these like... I've never had this. Yeah. Pretty big chunks of whatever. What's inside? Rice. Rice? Hmm? Nice. But you know how these are made actually? Like from wine leaf and then you put this uh rice with some spices and some vegetables like coriander or like like i don't know rosemary or like thyme or like this kind of like herbs and then you roll them and put them in the like a pan or something and then you put like a soup of meat or chicken whatever or vegetables then you let them cook in the like the normal way you do the rice mm-hmm but instead of water use soup so it's so juicy it's rich yeah go on when you're describing the food yeah i can tell you and you know what's the best part of this like the last ones in the pan because they are really like draw like they are sinking in the sauce and like the it's becoming caramelized at some point if you keep it on the fire for some time and then at the end you see them like really like hugging each other you know and like feeling like like tired a bit but they are still the best tired but tasty yeah i always look for the one at the at the end of the pen do you ever make this yourself yes with my mother yeah and then she can she can understand that i'm smoking a person because i was rolling them so thin understand that I'm smoking person because I was rolling them so thin. How you roll it? We will not put this on the dining table, you know. People should not see this evidence. You have to unwrap them again and do it again. You have to learn how to roll. It's like, ah. This is how we get to roll in the Middle East, you know. You have to keep rolling. But for vine leaves and nice things only, you know. Yeah, but this was really nice. Is there some on it? Please. Mm-hmm. Okay, I will have half of it. But you remember what age did you start like getting into Middle Eastern cuisine more? I thought you were going to ask about rolling. What age when you start rolling them together I don't think I could pinpoint when I got interested in a specific type of food hmm I think I always I would say it was an easygoing baby okay everything so maybe even as a baby I had something i don't know damn i would have to ask my parents it was really late in my life when i started but do you have an option as a baby to decide what you want to eat actually describe everything the same way you know well me were you like picky as a kid with eating? No. For example, I started enjoying meat very late because as a kid I broke most of my milk teeth. I fell one, two, three times. So I couldn't really chew some types of meat. So it was a little bit on delay before I became a full carnivore Maybe talk about some art practice from you guys. We're trying not to stay hungry with our art practices. Yes Who thinks about art when they're hungry, right? No, I don't even think about art when I'm making art. Exactly. Can I say, I had a question at the beginning. So you were talking about hacking toys. Uh-huh. And this tickled my imagination a bit. So tell me about like the last toy that you hacked. My last project was with a robot dog. Because I actually started with toy hacking during the media archaeology course. Because I had at home... With Gabbard? Yes, because I had at home my original Furby from the 90s. And from there came the inspiration to try and modify toys because they have a lot of sensors inside so I was curious about the anatomy of them and what can you reuse because I was trying to apply also not to always buy new sensors and new technology and try to buy these second-hand toys and reuse what's already in it to create something new and then my latest collection is this Robot dog toys. I found one in Japan because I went to Yamas to write my thesis Yeah It was amazing I was three months there in Ogaklits in the middle of nowhere where the Yamas University is, it was the best. There I started the project with the dog where I then 3D scanned my face and I replaced the dog's face with my face. But like as a plastic mask? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we 3D scan it and then I 3D printed it and then I exchange it. And now I bought a lot of more dogs because I'm trying to build some sort of army. But it's still an ongoing project because next year I have a solo exhibition in Novgorica so I'm collecting toys. For the European Capital of Culture? Yes. Ah, okay. And this one, one of the first that you did already, right? So beautiful. This is from the show in Slovenia then, but the one was ours. Yeah, this was one version that was made for ours. And then I had to build two of them because it was overlapping with our media archaeology show in Salzamt and one was in Slovenia. So I had to build two. They multiplied. Yes. And then, yeah, I like to collect actually, yes, small toys and then... Wow, this is a toy, this is not a... Yes, this is a fish toy. Apparently, yeah. It's a robot fish. But it's underwater. Yeah, that's why. It's a toy that is underwater, maybe that's the logical... And then when I went to Yamaz I found this this toy this is how it was right like i think it's it's so smart that you don't have to build the whole thing from scratch and then you can just do like this is really smart actually approach to how to hack things and to like this is really smart actually approach to how to hack things and uh and then yeah this was the process during yamas when i was testing it when i did the 3d printing of my face and then that time i also connected it to a esp32 cam so there was also a live feed so it's like sort of a spy. And the other screen is like yeah it's a LD tiny connected also to and it's like my eye blinking on the other. And this was the other show at Yamas. Yeah this is how it looked like in the end when it was... Quite uncanny. Yamaha yeah, this is how it looked like Wow in the end when it was Wrote my thesis about uncanny And also I worked a lot with latex so this was the first prototype when I tried to make the remote also not so inviting for people to interact with it because this idea came from the other project I had, the Uncanny TV, where I made this tongue remote control where you have to press the tongue to change the channels. It feels like you're in a real situation. For real? Like, yeah, yeah. Also, okay. So it feels like a real tongue. For real? Like, yeah. Also, you tried this, you were there. This was at ARS 2022. But you have to caress it or press it more? You have to press. But still, it's very squishy and very tongue-like. What material did you use to write on it? This I ordered a fake tongue online. How much is a fake tongue online? I don't remember now. So frankly, still. Yeah, I really wanted to jelly, you know, talking, you know, silicone and latex because then I work with this material. So this where is it? Yeah, this was the RoboDog version. And now I'm trying to build some more. Because I was now having a lot of work with curating different shows, so I had my artwork a bit on pause. Okay. But what you can say as a statement from what we saw now from this like diverse or like projects that you did already. Like, do you have a statement that you can say that you are interested in this way of art or like practice or something are you interested in trying and hacking toys i think like i'm just also trying with this recycle thing and my inspiration always comes because since a kid i was always inspired by movies you know I like to watch for example like some horror movies or weird movies from 80s and 90s where they build you know they're all props they don't use the fake animated stuff as today and from this feeling of the texture and the slime and the weirdness I find the more it is weird the more beautiful it is to me so this is kind of the inspiration to connect kind of with you you like animatronics yeah that's cool yeah yeah i really like this approach yeah and that that's why i asked you about this dog that we like it to have it in the show. Yeah, I'm bringing it now. Now it's coming. It's coming by foot from here. Any dogs you have so far? I have two. But this one is finished. And the other one I have at home that is headless. But I already have a face. So you're doing the transplants at the moment. Do you give names? I don't know. Ale już mam twarz, która... Więc teraz robisz transplant? Tak. A czy dajesz imię? Nie wiem. Wszędzie jest tylko Eerie Me. Ponieważ nazwałam to projekt Eerie Me, ponieważ zawsze próbowałam włożyć trochę siebie w moje projekty. Dlatego Eerie Me. Nie wiem. Eerie me, I don't know. Eerie you. Eerie you. Eerie me. Do you remember the first toy that you ever hacked or the first step that you take into this realm of hacking toys? First time was during Interface Cultures when this inspiration started. And did you thought it for a long time or was it just like okay I'm just gonna give it a try and then it was working more than you thought somehow? I don't know because that was an interesting period also because we were in the lockdown. This is what you want to hear about also. Different stuff that you find at home. What can I use at home and do something out of it? Like do you remember the chalice? Oh my god yes. at home. What can I use at home and do something out of it? Do you remember the jelly? Oh my god, yes. Do you want to tell us about this? It was for Laurent's course, microcontrollers too. Advanced microcontrollers. I don't know how advanced mine was, but Laurent enjoyed it on some level. Yeah. I think we were... It was the vibration motor dipped in jelly or something exactly someone knows what it is the green one uh jello basically and i just put the vibration and light inside and a motion sensor that barbara luckily had because we were all working together yeah do you want to show it show us this project do you have it here. I have it here. I think mine from Basically, so when you went towards the jelly it started to vibrate and light up as a warning sign because I like a moving body You have to video the greats of this you have to video with the cigarette i remember what i posted somewhere yeah oh but this year i was doing course with my final prototype that's good yeah great that the hand imitates the same click move but yeah i don't know if i don't know if i have saved this must be somewhere in stories archives because yeah we had like plenty of such you know amazing fun experiments of course we shared them at some point but it's not like part of her official portfolio because i wouldn't love experimentation plus when you have so many courses you kind of have to figure out something on the way on the go to kind of present whatever it may be, to show that you went through something. This one we literally did the night before. Yeah, or the same day, or something like that. But we were a special generation, let's say, I mean, okay, not only us, maybe generation before as well, and after, right? Kind of. But we spent most of the time through lockdown. We spent two years of lockdown. We had one month, I think, of presence. Yeah, in first year. And then... And then second, again, first winter was locked. I think it was just the one month, right? Just to give us the feeling of actually being at the university. After Halloween, yeah. Closed. And then Kevin arrived. Docapi didn't exist for like more than a year yeah yeah yeah it's really different than what we are studying now you know the whole the whole things was different so we were not allowed to enter the university no one was allowed to sit inside we had to be home i think it's become tough actually to study or to follow like a art program or art study in this way to be honest yeah we only managed as a little community of like four five of us or so spending all the time together in one of our flats and just spreading around you know the wires and the lead and the computers and whatnot looked like a crazy lab yeah we became like a little blob that you know eats uh pieces of leather or something you know in their beds because you cannot get rid of all the crap that we had to use sometimes for projects. Plus, you know, computers to follow the lectures and fall asleep and to kind of meet all the criteria while having this kind of hands-on full-time experimenting without maybe some decent prior knowledge or without access to the workshops or labs. So we really had to like move everything within our four walls. By the way, we all lived separately at the time and we still are like everybody lived on their own address, but we would be always working together and following the lectures. It was funny also with the professors. Yeah, I still think that till nowadays they They're not quite sure if we were roommates Family what happened? Are you guys together like no, but yeah, I mean have to explain this like we have different flats, but Let's see four heads on one camera and you see four cameras Yeah, you just look, see four heads on one camera and then you see four cameras like that from different angles. It's like when you go to like Media Markt or something and there is like the TV section you have like your face on like chief TV. Yeah, we had such panopticons of our own and I think, yeah, it's kind of memorable. I don't miss it so much. Of course, it was nice sometimes to just roll out of bed and be in the lecture one minute later. But it was also quite exhausting and just to stare at the screen for such a long time. And as Kristina said, we unfortunately didn't get the opportunity, for example, to try out like the 3D printer and laser cutter. I mean, some eventually, you know, through our own initiatives, I guess all of us did in some way, but there was never the introductory course. But not only on that nerdy side, it's also about like for two years you don't get to meet even the small city, you know, it's like, OK, that's why maybe we stayed this long, you know, for first two years, we barely saw anything, it doesn't count. So actually, the next two years, I'm more like, okay, there are like a few bars around, we can go here, there are people, you know, there's the rest of Kunsthune. But because of course, when you're studying master's, it's not only about maybe meeting new techniques. I'm kind of directing the story now. Also there's openings, galleries and events like that. Of course, it's a network because you already come with your background, you come with your perspective, you're kind of maybe putting something on top of it, but it's not like only about profiling yourself or learning particularly. It's more about the social aspect of it, the further network, further collaborations and so on that of course come through also such courses or then the building or then the environment and so on so yeah we kind of we were lucky also to click with each other to be each other's you know fun and family and support and that everybody brought their own skills because otherwise it's very hard to imagine how would that look like. I want to ask you how this was reflected on your artworks. We did some collabs in the meantime. Also, we did Power Strangers that also was kind of helped with or supported by the Ministry of Culture in Slovenia, which we exhibited. They kind of had this little nice life. But in the meantime, I think we all exchanged a lot. I'm not sure how much. I mean, all of us developed projects in the first year for Art Electronica. Yeah, but we all came with a different, again, everybody has their own skill set, like superpowers. And in that context, it didn't really intertwine for us to change uh the way we work that is really close or natural to us i think we definitely learn from each other kind of expand the things and we know how to read each other's works but in a way that if i may say for all of us it feels like it didn't really impact the way like the language we use or the media we use we didn't really impact each other in that regard much unless there was already a pre pre-known correlation and so because we as you said we mostly had our own backgrounds or directions very well but it was really, funny because you can't imagine we had learning lints online. Yes. Online. I mean, we had to walk in Google. Yeah, the street interface was for us online. Yeah, we were sharing. Yes, sharing the prototypes through the webcam and showing how it clicks. Interface cultures and it's most limited. It ended with a horrible karaoke, I think one of the worst I've ever heard in my life. Oh my god, yes. I almost forgot that. You've two times in the same interface. Yeah, but I think interface cultures made the most out of it. I'm not sure who initially designed it. I think Matthias was involved in the building of this online space, which was, of course, it's not the same as real life, but yeah, Gather Town. So people built like a replica of interface cultures. Yeah, the copy, everything. The copy, the the toilets the kitchen that's cool actually yeah and then adding more and more stuff the following year i think and then we moved through different spaces yeah the presentation were in lecture room and then we moved the party to the virtual the copy yeah it was kind of cute yeah it was also fun. At one point someone impersonated Christa and came up to me and asked me some very funny and strange questions until I realized it's not her. Oh my god, okay. But I remember in this time that a lot of exhibition spaces start to adopt this thing of 3D environments. Horrible. exhibition spaces start to adopt this like thing of like 3d 3d environments after the first one i was like okay okay these guys are coping with like the the covid thing second i was like i guess then after the third one it was like oh man like the most horrible thing that ever happened to any gallery or internet or whatnot this was the most desperate take for most of the galleries art fairs and so at the time i worked as a gallery assistant for a well-known European gallery, let's say. So the horror of getting invitations from all other galleries, festivals, art fairs. Check out our virtual exhibition space with all of these most basic 3D renders and then artworks in these digital, 2D glued things on some fake lit walls. I mean, that was literally the most desperate way of communicating an artwork, especially whether it's like media arts or traditional art forms, it all blended into cheapest, worst 3D, whatever models of spaces. It didn't compliment anyone and kill me if somebody actually made a good sale for it because it was also commercial as much as engaging and like, hey, we're still making a program. Of course, there were other places who are maybe more inclined to web art or new media that could navigate it in a nicer way or create these virtual spaces where people could actually build things within, not to mention, okay, there were also like Mozilla Hubs and things like that, alright. But when it comes to this kind of transition between galleries, as you mentioned, like these traditional formats of exhibiting into 3D, it's a hellhole. It was, yeah, also for me as a cultural worker at that point, if we are required to submit something like that, we would usually say no, or if you would have to work in on such crap it's really a waste of time and nobody's actually actually visiting but the point is i think the web page itself is such like a nice format like the 2d space of like the internet that they don't feel it it needs to be sort of like trying to reach like the the the physical world you know it's such like uh it's like it's not going to make you feel like you're in a gallery observing an artwork. No, no, just make it more, no? Make it like a feed that is like force-feeding you with content. Like there are so much things that you can... There were amazing examples of that too, but also coming from institutions, organizations, or places that knew what they were doing with it. But this common standard of just trying to make 2D, 3 was really horrible that's yeah i think i have a trauma since i'm talking this much about it it's really not professional deformation and a trauma when i would say so i had a bit but do you wanna do you wanna show us maybe a little bit of your artworks that you did during that time but not in 3d the virtual space of a gallery, please. Show me your renderings, eh? Yeah, we can be happy about our 2D screen, I guess. I love my 2D so much. My SketchUp sketches, because it's the reach of 3D that I can do, is only when you're supposed to sketch something to construct. So my first COVID work, I guess, it was the digital prayer. So this was a multi-channel, 16-channel, five-meter, huge, whatever, video and audio installation that was generating using StyleGAN that was kind of hype at the time, 2019, 2020. I was kind of trying to test its affordances because there was a lot of these trends like, oh, generating some machine you know machining dreams uh new stars seas flowers and so on i was like okay let's try to find a motive that uh might you know that uh the way the the computer is processing the pixel the matrix in itself of the of the database of the images in the database might naturally incline towards without like with with a level of resemblance that is like with a higher level of resemblance let's say so not to not to turn it into some sort of a moving image mesh but to be like okay which kind of imagery uh in its nature in its form has like already a very structured uh composition or colors and so and those were the byzantine or orthodox icons whose visual language didn't really change since medieval times till nowadays they're like transmitters of a message so therefore the digital prayer i mean as you can see here of course these were all videos so image images were like kind of building and dissolving and so on. So I could kind of visualize the processes of how the image has been made through machine learning processes, plus with the original code that was running to create these. And I was kind of just aligning or juxtaposing the relation between this canonical structure of the orthodox icon and the code that digital prayer like again trying to transmit a message for a completely different language to again the digital language of the numbers of statistical probability rather than any spiritual meaning so yeah that was the yeah that's what you got actually it's fitting this time of like corona when everything's digital. So yeah, this is digital prayer. We all transcend into the cloud, which is very material, very physical. That's what happened, if we want to make a... It's just, yeah, it's like ethereal, but it's not actually, you know, it's just our projections or our easy way of putting a metaphor towards something to kind of try to understand or accept it, while not really understanding it. So this work was also very critical in that regard. That's why all the screens or these server racks that were part of the construction of the Echinostasis altarpiece were visible as well as the computers and the sound. So it's like, okay, this is very material. We're not trying to simulate, yeah, it's all to simulate yeah it's all flickering it's all light it's all almost sacred there you know but no it's very material steel it's cables it's servers and costs you know this was exhibited in Belgrade this was also part of the European the what's the name now, with Arts Electronica, the 13 European partners. It's not a digital deal, or was it, right? Digital? No, I forgot what's the name of the project. It's been running for years. Now there's a new iteration of it. It's with 13 partners from Europe, Arts Electronica, Science Galleries, Dublin, somewhere, somewhere. I want to do Pentahomus. Belgrade was also part of it. I received an award. That's how this got produced. It was like from the national selection. So it was also part of this practice of art in AI, which was also the publication and the aftermath of the whole four year long project among us and the partners. Since it was COVID, this was not exhibited physically during ours, but it was presented online or on screen and so on. there are some follow-up also videos and making-offs and interviews so yeah that was maybe or I'm gonna show you because this is such a long story to a speculum art you may 20 European open science forum it went to a lot of places I'm already talking about this so long that I didn't even start with the rest of the project so we can can... But you expect to have such a big effect? I mean, it could have been more, actually. I don't think... Because it's lockdown, you know? You cannot really present the work. I mean, I sent to Trieste, I sent some smaller constructions. Slovenia did it on their own. But it was very difficult to actually distribute the project in the nicest way, because there was a lot of pressure at the time for everyone and for every festival or exhibition production, everybody was still navigating how to do all of this COVID thing, because this was 2020, September 2020, and I think it even, even I think now sometimes this artwork has another life now, where people are reaching out to me more. In these years, maybe after I was also more present on the European scene or exhibiting other works around, so this, again, being present or having your work actually physically exhibited matters a lot or much more than whatever happened in the in the virtual worlds so yeah that's why I would say it definitely could have had a chance to deserve more attention it might will at some point because I don't think it suffers from this oh the technology is now old well doesn't matter this was works in my opinion what is the golden age to exhibit AI artworks I hope it that's golden age is over by now I really am I went back to painting, you know Seems like gallery people the gallerist really still are Some or yeah depends, but I think I hope really I really hope that we are you know past these years of this massive hype That everything made by ai becomes self-referential and important because of it so it can glow any concept or any sense making thing to it i think it got the scene or whatever contemporary art fine art visual art media art it got a little bit oversaturated technologies are changing also the way we use them and which is great because now i guess if you really want to use it again, it cannot be self-referential. It's made by AI, but it doesn't explain the artwork itself. It's like, okay, everybody can do that nowadays. You don't need any technical background. It's not the context itself. It doesn't matter anymore. So now if you're using it, you should use it as a tool to improve some other point. So I like that the, you know, this hot air balloon of AI thing may be deflated in some parts of the industry or culture. Of course it still runs, but I think in a different way or a less mystified way now when everybody can use it. It's like cool for people who have no further interest in understanding anything. The thing is sort of like hamster wheel because like to get funding, you need to talk about certain topics because then... That's why I don't get funding. Actually, last festival we had a performance with dancers and then a woman came up to us who was really interested, but she said, yeah, you should add some flashy words, so to say, like AI. And I think it's a bit senseless just for the sake of having a label of like sustainability or feminism or whatever. Plus sustainability and AI altogether. Yes, exactly. It becomes so like perform altogether. Yes, exactly. It becomes so problematic. Very much so. I mean, we didn't really go into that comment then with me and my group for the project, but it really took me a bit of back because I was like, okay, I mean, we know that's how it is, but yeah, but then again, it's a matter of luck. And I mean, there's one way of doing so. And one thing is how you feel a form and with which premises are you actually doing and starting a project. Your project, you know, it had completely different direction and narrative and so on. So if you have to, you know, fill in a few forms, you know, it's definitely how the projects are working. But in case of your project, you would never do it intentionally. It's like you already had a point or the... You know, it was already vibing in its own way. I think it would have taken away from you. It would be forced. It feels like there's a big push towards this, as you said, like flashy words or something. The curator wants to have this in their catalogues or this description or this opening. You know, we have an opening about these interesting topics or something like the curator wants to have this in their like catalogs or like this like Description or this opening, you know, we have opening about this interesting topics. This might be interested for everyone Oh, and that's why they want to put it this words there because it's the hot topic these days But the point is also if you think they glue together stuff that is quite like a they are doing they are gluing exactly because They're not going like like Christina said those are like this They are doing, they are gluing exactly because they are not going like, like Christina said, like this sustainability and AI, like I don't understand it because if I just unplug it, it's not, cannot work by itself, you know. The whole sustainability, it should depend on itself, on the base. It is the base of something sustainable, you know. But if I can unplug the power from it, so it's not sustainable, you know. Like why should I go toward more this direction it's it's not uh it's not logic for me i don't know yeah well yeah but yeah but this was really nice from you actually like explaining this uh this project it's still my favorite but it was pre-interface cultures yeah actually yeah how long before well 15 days before I would start studying Actually at the same time I had to dismantle all of this shit and pack my suitcase and then come here and find a flat Or like be like, okay Yeah, and it was it was quite intense Afterwards I continued my practice in again kind of leveling up towards image making image reading Trying to see the cognitive cognitive dissonances between human expectation what should a computer do computer logic human logic context and content so on and so forth but uh i would kind of wrap it up here we can always go back maybe to something of particular interest we also had a nice collaboration with our little data ghost. But but yeah, so I'm just like leaving a few hints, but we can redirect. We were touching on your project shortly before and I was a little bit. I didn't want to. Yeah, let's work the portfolio. Actually, I don't know where to start, because as I said, my practice has changed quite a bit, which i guess is true for all of us which is what also this is really nice because we really want to uh also know about this because you know like people always don't understand or don't know majority people like how media art especially this terminology that's not really old in the history of art let's say yeah and then how people make it or like how people can do this kind of art. And eventually everyone of us is coming from a different background. So we want to know also how it went after graduation. After this, I think this is also interesting to know. We'll get there. How has it changed a bit? So this is interesting for me. I mean, finally, now that you say it, as I said, I studied graphic design and photography, but I only really got into it when I was in interface cultures. So I got some opportunities to do some designs and during my bachelor, I would have never had the idea even to go into that field, even though that's what I was studying. But yeah, I think I'll just quickly show some stuff. Honestly, I don't know where to start yet. Quite like this one, it was at Electronica 22. No, 22. 22, yes. So maybe, so it's called Deepfake Sunder. It's kind of like a soundscape. As I said before, I work with like creating this virtual environment. And this was exhibited in Cyprus, actually, the year before we went. Oh, okay. And so basically, it was one of the first times I worked with sound. And you walk through this city that's encapsulated by this pink blob and everywhere you go you hear different glimpses of conversations. So the months prior to the project I started collecting just snippets of conversations I heard and then started feeding them into this text-to-text AI. I don't know which one it was. What was the name of the… There were so many. and then started feeding them into this text-to-text AI. I don't know which one it was. What was the name of the... There were so many. It was just a white and very like HTML looking layout. We just had one box and we all used it in the courses. I don't know really. I use at least 20 of them at a time for my projects. Is it a Google Collab thing? Because at that day there was a lot of stuff Google collab like Jim Stein. It's a Jupyter notebook thing. This is even a web browsing sample. There were so many like this LMAI. Then of course Microsoft had their open demo versions and samples. There were so many at the time, really. I don't know. Yeah, so basically I then created these loops of conversations. I mean, this was just another one I'll quickly skim through about like hidden parts of queer history. It looks like media video. You know, that like TV thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's called Telecodes based on Teletext. So you had to find parts of a cipher that was hidden in this Teletext pages all over this world and then you could unlock rooms that give you a kind of an introductory intro for lack of words which tools used for this idea actually mainly unity okay but yeah it was about hidden parts of queer history because in our school system here in austria at least and in many other places it's not really part of education system so yeah it's only a small glimpse into it yeah and then as I said I started working a lot with dancers like 2020 I'm so bad with this one I think so right this one and I was last year in As Electronica. Yeah, it's kind of an ongoing project with three dancers from the Bruckner Uni, Ariadne Koine, Alejandra Bennett and Lucia Mauri and we've been working together quite a lot. This was a webcam based performance in deep space in As Electronica, where i had multiple cameras in different parts of the room also on the dancer and was kind of life reaching the switching between as i said it's ongoing so we showed it a couple of times also for international women's day but yeah it got me really into this But yeah, it got me really into this field of performance, which I would say I do a lot in now. Currently have an upcoming project with a dancer from Sweden, Matilda Bjerum. And yeah, hopefully in fall, maybe you can see it also in Linz. Or if you want to travel to Sweden, of course. Sweden or Linz? Yes, Linz is probably cheaper. Okay. or if you want to travel to sweden for everyone of course sweden or linz yes um linz is probably cheaper okay um yeah and then just to wrap it up this is kind of the last one i'm working on also with the dancer using 360 camera oh this one i missed the premiere of it was it the brook now right yes but i also missed your performance so we're okay we are equal now Yes, but I also missed your performance. Oh, okay, we are equal now. Yes. Yeah, it was a concert by Lucia Mauri about like gazing, so how dancers gaze and use their eyes and looking as part of the performance. And Darvila, non giocata. Ah, yeah, she's Italian. Andaragriana. Non giocata. Ah yeah, she's Italian. Ah, of course. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Andaragriana, she's Italian. Barbara for more interesting stuff. What did you use for this filter? The filter you applied to the footage? This one in this grid? Different stuff. Some of them in TouchDesigner. Then a lot of after-production in After Effects. And quickly just some of my graphic stuff. And then I'm gonna stop these posters. No, no, please, please. So beautiful. A project I'm really fond of um through the uh politcom which had an ongoing project with young prisoners here in linz for half a year to prepare them for life after they get out like mock job interviews but also talking about their feelings and then turning this into on the one hand like kind of how do you call that not poetry slam but the young guys then did present some of the stuff they wrote and I turned some of them into posters yeah it's quite moving also if you can understand the German. But a lot of them are talking about not wanting to disappoint their mother and she shouldn't cry and strong men also cry, stuff like that. And you were working in prison? I went there for the presentation and it was really, the prison itself was not shocking to me but how young these boys were I think the youngest was 14 so it's like Jugendstrafvollzug up to, I'm not sure I don't want to say the wrong age but they don't divide the age group into underage I think they do but to be honest I don't know the specifics but these were all very young men I would say maximum until 25 maybe would be my guess what they can see actually here uh i think there's a nice influence from everyone background and his like art practice if i can say like the your installation with the painting or this painting somehow because you come from this background so i appreciate this uh aesthetics view how you place it or how you were talking about it and how you also describe it because it was not the point how you like shiny polish technology in a way but you just a message that you want to deliver from behind yeah if I would say and also for Sarah also I see like the graphics also like really, really good actually. Yeah. Everyone view is really influenced, like influenced much about the background in his art practice. I don't know actually if I influenced so much about my background, like your childhood. No. Not this background. i still remember first time seeing you in the entrance exam through the camera and you had such a great energy this guy belongs to yeah it was because also in corona you know like as you thought yeah everyone was trying to bring what uh like everyone was pushing like I don't know if I can say like pushing or like striving to do like also something new because the whole situation was really frustrating to be honest and mean it was good energy i was trying i was so nervous actually like this was so bad yeah but anyway like uh would you uh talk about like or did you if you like want to share with us like how was it after you finished uh studying the master's in the art university how was it afterwards technically you finished but it's still your master's writing your thesis right like i mean i finished the courses but i haven't finished the writing yeah which is and i'm also planning to make part of it as a kind of physical work that i want to present in deep space okay okay um yeah so that's also a lot of work and I don't even want to talk about how many times I postponed it already. But yeah, I have the excuse of lots of other projects. Which is, do you think this will be part of your studies or your thesis somehow? I mean, of course, yeah, it all flows into it kind of. So my current title is Spatial Narratives. So going into this virtual environment, storytelling. But storytelling maybe not in the way as you would classically imagine someone telling a story with a video game, in between finding a third space between the reality and what exists in the digital and I think that's also where parts of my work are situated in this kind of third place you're also communicating virtuality or through virtuality you're communicating some you know social even languages social access aspects. Okay, now it transited also into movement and time-based kind of dancing elements, but even before with all the un- or not unknown, un-pop, unrepresented, underrepresented. You're using that word, right? Exactly, yes. Of course they know. I believe that you really know each other christina is always better at describing my work i think she's sitting in the middle perfectly you know she's our spokesperson i should eat more i guess okay christina do you want to tell us how is it after graduating? I mean, for me, the master's or writing the thesis in itself really aligned with this kind of soft landing after kind of a tempo with projects and exhibiting to also transit or to kind of wrap it up through theoretical research, critical research, which also resulted in a couple of, I don't know, presentations, conferences or papers. So, critical research, which also resulted in a couple of presentations, conferences, or papers. So, for example, I think that this little wrap-up and writing the thesis also, for me, opened or kind of established me in this further step or further, I don't know, space, gate, environment, community, that is more towards the academic research. environment community that is more towards the academic research and that was also interesting coming from like a field being a visual artist or media artist to kind of be able or to put some efforts to really establish myself into not only contextualizing my own artworks for the master but really developing further thought or this kind of theoretical debate that originally is established in my own also hands-on experience regarding some tools or yeah things under the term of ai um but yeah for personal practice but still us with the step forward that is yeah going into this whole kind of academic discourse do you think about like going into like a phd thing of course i was but uh yeah i'm still thinking of doing a phd just uh you know maybe it's like you shouldn't get married only once when it comes to all of that it's like not so easy to find the right phds and to just go somewhere the phd will provide the amount of money yeah yeah also like you know to find something yeah where you can actually be either paid for research or there's a fellowship and not only just to go for a phd where you again pay or some extended for research or there's a fellowship and not only just to go for a PhD where you again pay or extend it for some sake of a network. Like I can write on my own and conferences anyways cost or even such participations. Of course, it's much better when you have a background of the supporting institution where you have to do it. But yeah, I think there is also kind of time for that, especially after altogether 10 years of studying and two masters. I masters as like maybe I really need a break like it's okay Yeah, so now I also went back to painting I mean it kind of combined things and one thing brings the influence of the other like oil Both I mean not on the same canvas most of the time but uh, but yeah now it in a rented flat acrylics Come on. I have to scrape it out like with oil But yeah, now in a rented flat, acrylics, come on, I have to scrape it out, like with oil, it would all turn into kindergarten. What else? Oh, epoxy, yes, epoxy. Yeah, so. You, Barbara? Oof, my graduation period. How was it after graduation? I took it pretty easy first because it was stressful because when I was at Yamas, I went there for three months and I had Krista as my supervisor and I was her last student. And she called me at Yamas, oh, I have to graduate one month earlier because she was retiring and she didn't know. She didn't postp that her one month no she thought she could still have me in march but then she got a call from the office no barbara has to graduate in january and i was like no but actually that was a perfect kick because then i wrote my thesis like i have to do it i'm on a mission yeah after graduation i first took it easy because Manu told me, you've done a lot in this time. Take it easy. And then I took it easy. But then I didn't know how much time should I take it easy. How easy are we going to take it? Yeah, this is something we should think about. And then I was trying to find myself, should I stay here or should I go back to Slovenia? But then I was trying to find myself, should I stay here or should I go back to Slovenia? But then I still decided because I haven't lived in Slovenia for 10 years. I like to work with international people. I like to be somewhere else. I mean, it's nothing wrong with Slovenia, but just going back to your hometown. Yeah, I was scared because I come from a very small town, Terbolia. How many people are we talking about? 16,000. 16,000? It's even smaller than mine. Yeah. Also, I come from a very small town. Yeah, Cairo. How many new people do you have? I forget. If you make a refresh on the web page, it's like, then I decided I want to stay in Linz and because it's so close to my hometown with the car, it's only four hours, you know, because then I started to work a lot with different uh art associations in Slovenia like for curating and organizing exhibitions and it was perfect for me to be based in Linz and then just drive with my car to Slovenia whenever was needed because I was lucky in Slovenia minister of Culture is really supporting artists, so I could open my own company and be a self-employed artist in Slovenia, and they cover my expenses for health insurance and the year's goal for pension, so I could give an invoice, so I could work with different companies for organizing and curating, but it was still then kind of not enough i wanted something more stable because it's sometimes very hard to leave um when when you're not sure when will the next job come oh yeah that's a big question that's why i was quite happy and lucky that I got a chance now for five months to work for Kunsthund and now for five months I know like okay. You know what to pay the bills. I can have an accident. I'm safe. It's fair enough actually. Yeah. But well yeah this was really like... I think it was really smooth. Yeah and also nice. And we didn't eat all of the food. I don't know, you guys. We must finish tomorrow. But anyway, we were really happy about all of this amount of art and food. Again, with three cool colleagues from Interface Culture. And I think now we should eat the rest of the food right but before that we should end the show right should we do we abandon from the window like last time or we last time yeah last time this is how we finish it like we get out of the window and we say bye to the camera we we parachute ourselves yeah so I think are you are you ready or comfortable with throwing yourself I mean my muscle pain can't get any worse so why not. Okay so you're the first one. This was your super. And that's how you break the microphone. No I break at the beginning. Yeah but before we do it like this was your super right? Your super. Yeah and thanks for Pippi and Rita. Thanks for having us. I think you want falafel right? Yeah we can have one we are going out again but yeah anyway we are leaving now I think I'm done yeah let's go into face culture straight to the window luckily we have insurance now yeah I don't no me neither I hope this is not recorded I think so we really have some insurance Yeah, I think so. No, me neither. I think so, yeah. We really have something to do. I can still pay. Hey, I cannot reenter, I have a card. My card's there. Okay, bye! Did you say bye? I should jump. Me too, I can't say bye. My boot is stuck. Damn. Should I help you? Yeah. Thank you! Andrea, you can make it. Nice. Oh, air! Oh! Ciao, my man! Oh, that's so nice, guys. Thank you so much. Wow, thank you. Nice to meet you. This was nice. Really talkative and nice. This was really nice.