Ich möchte euch alle ganz, ganz herzlich begrüßen zu unserer heutigen Veranstaltung, zu unserer Podiumsdiskussion im Rahmen unseres Projekts, unseres Kulturhauptstadtprojekts Radio Transfer Communities in Dialog. Ich möchte die Gelegenheit gleich mal nützen, mich vorweg einmal bei unserem Gastgeber zu bedanken, Alexander Degöderin, dass wir hier heute hier in der Kurdirektion in Bad Ischl sein können. Und ich bedanke mich auch schon, obwohl es mich immer ein bisschen nervös macht, wenn Kameras auf mich gerichtet sind, bei Dorf TV, die diese Veranstaltung übertragen wird und auch aufzeichnen. Dankeschön. Ja, Radiotransfer Communities in Dialog, in dem Titel ist schon sehr viel drinnen, was wir mit unserem Projekt auch verfolgen, welche Themen wir hier verfolgen. Wir haben schon viele Aktivitäten und auch Veranstaltungen gemacht. Wir blicken auf ein knappes Jahr zurück. Es gab Konzerte, Podiumsdiskussion, eine Podiumsdiskussion auch. Es gab Besuche von Ungarn und Serbien. Und wir haben unsererseits auch Besuche gemacht in Ungarn. Wir haben etwa freie Radios besucht. Wir veranstalten dieses Projekt gemeinsam mit unserem Schwesterradio B138 in Kirchdorf und ich darf auch alle Radiomachenden vom Radio B138 herzlich bei uns begrüßen. Bevor ich die Podiumsgäste hier zu uns auf die Bühne hole, möchte ich noch Barbara Aigner von der Kulturhauptstadt bitten, ein paar Worte im Rahmen der Kulturhauptstadt hier zu sagen, bitte. Hallo, ich bin heute hier in Vertretung von Christian Haselmayr, der leider nicht da sein kann, aber die Programmleitung für dieses Projekt hat. Wir sind sehr froh, dass dieses Projekt existiert. Es ist ein richtig cooles Projekt und es ist wirklich, wie du schon gesagt hast, richtig viel schon passiert. Und ich glaube, Medienfreiheit in Europa und generell international ist ein sehr wichtiges Thema und ich finde es sehr passend, dass es gerade jetzt stattfindet, zu den EU-Wahlen und wünsche euch eine schöne Veranstaltung. Danke. Vielen Dank. Ja, es ist angesprochen worden, Medienfreiheit ist unser Thema und vor allem auch die Bedeutung und den Stellenwert in Community-Medien und hier in Bad Ischl aus Ungarn Sendungsmachende, die etwa bei uns in einem Workshop gemeinsam mit Sendungsmachende vom Freien Radiosalzkammergut Sendungen produziert haben. Und in diesem Austausch stellen wir uns eben genau jene Frage, denn freie Radios, Community-Medien sind auch ein Gradmesser für die Medien- und die Pressefreiheit. Und gerade in einer Zeit, in der die Dinge auch nicht nur besser werden, sondern teilweise auch schlechter. Etwa Österreich ist gerade wieder im internationalen Pressefreiheitsindex abgerutscht. Wir befinden uns derzeit nur mehr auf Platz 32. Das ist kein besonders guter Platz mehr. In Nachbarländern etwa wie in Ungarn sieht die Situation noch wesentlich schwieriger aus. Dort haben es frei unabhängige Medien, die nicht regierungsnah sind, besonders schwer, auch in Serbien etwa und wir machen heute unterschiedliche perspektiven wir haben auch eine außereuropäische perspektive wir schauen nach kamerun wie dort die situation ausschaut mit der pressefreiheit und ich darf jetzt meine podiums gäste auf die bühne bitten und beginne mit Gabriela Velic. Bitte schön auf die Bühne. Sie ist Universitätsprofessorin und Medienwissenschaftlerin aus Ungarn und wird uns sozusagen die wissenschaftliche Perspektive näher bringen. Ich darf weiter bitten, Jovana Tripunovic. näher bringen. Ich darf weiter bitten, Jovana Tripunovic. Applaus Sie ist Politikwissenschaftlerin und Podcasterin aus Serbien. Ich darf weiter bitten, Simon Inou. Er ist Applaus Er ist Medienkritiker und Radiojournalist aus Kamerun und ist derzeit bei Radio Orange tätig, bei den Public Affairs. Und zu guter Letzt darf ich Yakos Cserhati zu uns auf die Bühne bitten. Er ist erneut Gast bei uns auf dem Podium. Er ist langjähriger Geschäftsführer von Civil Radio in Budapest, ein Radio, das es schon sehr, sehr lange gibt und auch ein Radioaktivist der ersten Stunde. Danke einmal euch allen fürs Kommen. Ich möchte mit der wissenschaftlichen Perspektive beginnen. Gabriela Velic, sie ist außerordentliche Professorin am Institut für Pädagogik und Psychologie in Sombatay. Das ist nahe der Grenze zu Österreich. Ihre Forschung konzentriert sich auf das Radio, im Speziellen eben auf Community-Radios im nationalen und internationalen Kontext und sie stellt sich die Frage, welche Bedeutung Community-Radios auch für die Gemeinschaften und die Gesellschaften zukommen. Gabriela Velic, ich darf Sie um Ihren Input bitten. zu kommen. Gabriela Velic, ich darf Sie um Ihren Input bitten. First I would like to say that I love community media, I love community radio. When I was 26 or 27 I started a radio program in my hometown, in a community radio which had no license at that time and it was a really nice time for us to to make such kind of program that didn't exist on that period in 1992 1992-1993-ben, ez volt egy különleges szervezetünk, hogy a civil, normális, mindennapi embereknek a színeket adják meg a másoknak. Voltam ott egy különböző különbözőként, aki a híresítőként számolt, és a különböző szolgálatokkal is működtünk. secondary school students and later I was a founder of the University Radio and I was a chief editor of the University Radio. I have been working at the University more than 20 years. I'm a sociologist, I have a background as a journalist and a radio presenter and I'm in love with the community radio in one word. But unfortunately, many has changed in the recent years. For example, our university radio had to close down in 2012 after the new media law made impossible to operate anymore in a university environment. Now I'm a researcher, and I'm here as an academic person. I have no contact with daily base, with a community radio in my hometown there is no anymore community radio also the the church radio who got our license when we closed down a church radio got our license our studio our equipment and broadcasted but this church radio also closed down in 2022. So my hometown has only commercial radio and nothing more. So the local radio scheme is very weak now. So my research is based mostly on other cities, for example Budapest and other countries. And I'm focusing on community radio and education. And I'm very interested in how to involve children, how to involve young people to community radio movement. to community radio movement. One of my latest research was made with my colleague from Poland, Dr. Ursula Doliwa, visited us in 2022, and we went to Budapest to make interviews with two chief editors. One was the famous Tilos Radio chief editor, and the second was the University Radio chief editor, Az egyik a tilos rádió közösségével, a másik a személyi rádió közösségével, és nagyon sok beszélgetést tettünk, hogy hogyan látják a helyzetet a hónapokban. Két különböző stúdió, különböző helyzetek. They are both independent studios, independent stations. They give alternative to the mainstream commercial radio or the public radio, but they also have difficulties when they are talking about, for example, operating on a daily basis or how to involve volunteers to community radio. During this research, we also look at the factors influencing the functioning of the community media sector and the factors affecting media and freedom of expression. Partly I would like to read my text because otherwise I would like to talk very, very long. So it's a shorter version. We found that the media certainly had an impact on the changing of the communism regime in the region after 1989. This is a fact. However, after a short period of a very dynamic upward trend in media freedom, it soon became subject to political and economic conflict. Social gain logic often had to give way to market logic in media policy. We found that in Central and Eastern Europe countries, public policy in the media field served party goals rather than the public interest. Unfortunately, these problems are still visible in the countries from the region. Central and Eastern Europe is characterized by a visible top-down role of state power in the media. A Polish researcher, Dobek Ostrovska, said, a very strange sentence will follow, impact on political actors and mass media is associated with the immaturity of political A másik média az elméleti elit és a változatok előtt különböző házasságokat szól, amelyeket a kommunista időben előtt készítettek. A politikai személyek, aki a demokratikai személyekben változnak, még mindig a legnagyobb, a legnagyobb rendszerre is szükséges, hogy megfelelődjék a médiát. countries, despite the democratic systems, still use to a greater or lesser extent power and influence to put pressure on media. What is more, the growth of media freedom in Central and Eastern Europe cannot be called a steadily upward process. It is marked by a series of backward steps, which we can observe nowadays. Poland and Hungary may serve as an example here. In the World Press Freedom Index 2024, so the latest version I checked some days ago, Poland and Hungary has a problematic status. Poland is now ranking 47, while its worst score was 66 in 2012, 22. Négyedik a Jánosz, amelyik legjobb színűség volt, hogy 66-as volt a 2022-ben. A két évek közeléből 47-es színűségre változtak. Ez egy bizonyos szituáció. It's a strange situation. Hungary is now ranked 67th, and despite a better ranking than a year before, remain one of the so-called problematic countries. This is the Reporters Without Borders report. To comparison, Austria is ranking 32nd. This means satisfactory situation. But last year, it was a bit better, 29th. The characteristic of the region has an impact on the community radio development. In general, it has faced several key obstacles, among which the lack of an overall positive environment has played the most important role. Several problems in community media development in Central and Eastern Europe were identified during our research, which may be summarized as follows. The lack of political will to modify the law addressing community media, or low voluntary involvement, or limited knowledge about the idea of community media and possible benefits from the community media sector. For example, I am one of the few who research community media in Hungary. And as an academic, when I'm going to a conference and give a presentation there, most of the audience don't understand what I'm talking about. They know that the media is public media and commercial media and local media, but doesn't understand the topic of community media. Another strange thing that in the Hungarian language, Kozasegi media is the same for the social media and community media. That's why there is a confusion in the audience, in the brains that, what are you talking about? Is it Facebook or TikTok or something like that? No. I say, no, this is the third leg of the community media. This is the third leg of the media system and they don't understand it. It is not in the media books, for example, or only a short description. Most of the journalist students in the university don't know much about this community media meaning. But we found other obstacles, for example, that the community media movement is weakening. Limited governmental and non-governmental financial sources could be used for community media support. So financing is always a critical point. In some countries, there are high copyright fees or the spectrum occupied by the commercial and public sector or for example in Poland and Hungary the church got a lot of community frequencies. These problems persist today. Moreover, the growth of interest in third sector broadcasting in the region has slowed. Such initiatives now face even more obstacles than before. But I would like to mention some other points for this discussion because we have to know that the media and the audience connection to the media has changed in many ways. I also would like to highlight that the freedom of expression now has many more platform than in the early 90s. On that time, there were only local newspapers, local television studios, and the people who worked there, they were professional. Only a few people had a chance to deliver the voice, deliver the opinion to a wider audience. They were journalists. Journalism was a profession on that time. And what is now? All can be a journalist. All can give their voice on different social platforms. On that time, journalism was a profession, something which is not for all. That's why when the first community radio initiatives came to life, it was a big difference that somebody without a professional education can have a voice in media, can make a radio program, and can reach other people. That was the time of awakening. But the government started to regulate and change the media, the media law, and it also affected the operation of community radio in our country. I would like to highlight that we have community radio more than 30 years ago, and we came proud of it. Hungary is an interesting country to study, as it used to be one of the European leaders in non-profit radio development. A sector legally recognized in that country in 1996, but before that time there was lots of community radio Vseh komunitetskih radij je bilo predstavljeno z nekaj pravih licencij. Tiloš radija je bilo tudi piratnih radij. V Poljščini je bilo tudi to. V prvi časih je bilo predstavljeno z veliko piratnih radij. Od tamtega je bilo predstavljeno, da so najbolj ustavljene Since then, however, the most established communityösségi médiászerviz, amelyiket újra megkodáltak és megkérdezték a New Media Law-on. Ez nem olyan új, mert 2011-ben, amikor a New Hungarian Media Law-on két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két két new Hungarian media law, there was lots of debate about this media law. So we realized that the definition, the criteria, and the basic principles of community media were formulated inappropriately and too loosely in this media law. This regulation changed every single aspect of the community radio's life and contains, every single aspect of the community radio's life and contains, contrary to the previous regulation and EU declaration, an unconventional vision of community media. I think Akos will tell us more about these daily obstacles. But I also have to mention some other challenges for this discussion. This time, people share their opinion on social media. So social media is a challenge for community movement. Newspapers are declined. Public media sector lost audience because of not the previously strong commercial media, but the streaming platforms. And last, young people not only listen, a közösségi médiával, de is a stream-i platformokkal is. És a másik, a nők nemcsak hallgatnak, hanem a interneten a médiákat készítik. Szóval minden ezek a számokat a kérdésben készítik, és nem tudjuk mondani, hogy ez a saját szituáció. da je to tudi tačna situacija. Treba vzmeti, da so se okoljšnji okoljšnji časopisnega razvijanja zelo zame zahvaljali. Tako da je moja vprašanja, kako očistiti komunitetsko medijo? Nadam se, da bo ta konversija pripravila nas do tega odgovoru. Hvala, da ste se z nami poslušali. Antwort. Und danke, dass Sie mich gehört haben. Danke sehr, Gabriela Velic, für Ihre Einführung. Ich möchte hier zwischendurch sagen, dass nach den Vorträgen der Podiumsgäste das geöffnet wird für Fragen. Sie können sich, wenn Sie jetzt schon Fragen haben, bitte diese Fragen merken und im Anschluss an unsere Gäste stellen. Ja, wir kommen, wie du gesagt hast, auch wieder zurück dann auf die Situation, auf die konkrete Situation in Ungarn. Jetzt machen wir einen Sprung nach Serbien und auch einen Sprung in Richtung der jetzt gerade angesprochenen sozialen Medien. Jovana Tribunovic, sie ist Politikwissenschaftlerin und Podcasterin aus Serbien. Sie betreibt mit einem Team die Plattform podcast.rs für kritische und unabhängige Stimmen. dot rs für kritische und unabhängige Stimmen dort eine Möglichkeit zu bieten, diese zu verbreiten. In Serbien gibt es im eigentlichen Sinne keine freien Radios, Community-Medien, aber eine Plattform wie diese ist eben bemüht, auch eben unabhängigen Journalismus zu gewährleisten. Und sie wird in ihrem Statement auch der Frage nachgehen, welche Potenziale internationale Zusammenarbeit haben für die Ziele, zur Schaffung eines gemeinsamen Netzwerks von unabhängigen Medien. Ich bitte um deinen Input, Jovana Tripunovic. I'll start with kind of a joke, maybe not very successful one, but just sitting here not being able to understand German. Entschuldigen Sie bitte, betreten verboten and a few more things I can say. and a few more things I can say. But it felt a little bit like consuming commercial media that missed me as community. And that is what I see as biggest advantage of community media because then you can be addressed in a way that suits you. And of course, I understand that I shouldn't understand German at this point, and it's not that point but I want to continue with this kind of humorous tone while I was listening to Gabriela I got two times goosebumps because there was one moment when you said that university radio became church radio that reminded me of one metaphor that like in science, in medicine, in technology, we have only way up, if you notice. It's always things are getting better. Our medicine is better. Our technology is better. But only for society and sociology, we are like on a pendulum. We are like sometimes going in so-called good direction, sometimes going in so-called good direction, sometimes going in wrong direction. And since we don't know where we are going, that reminds me on another, but Eastern story, there is that Asian, I believe Indian story about blindfolded people touching elephant. And every person thinks it's some different animal because they cannot comprehend the whole picture. What I see as biggest advantage of this panel discussion is that finally we can exchange some information about the feeling of that animal we are touching and we can say well it has some big ears is it elephant maybe and ask that person who is touching tail. So with exchange among what I believe communities but also in line with technological development no matter how depressive those decrease lists of media freedom in Hungary in Poland and I'll just start with Serbian case no matter how depressive they look knowing that we are all on the same task and knowing that we are all consuming same media content in this globalized society we are really not sure how many people in badishla can for example consume some content in serbian bosnian croatian language we don't know if there are people who should consume their chinese media content living somewhere in Europe. So we are not anymore talking about European media sphere or not even Western media sphere. We are all sharing, besides broadcasting being kind of limited with geography, we can all podcast and consume different content. So it loses a little bit the the concept of speaking on national perspectives because if we are just exchanging those stories being blindfolded and in front of elephant then our story so the animal we are touching being blindfolded from Serbian side is that things sometimes look like law is going in good direction. For example, our recent, most recent media change finally opened door for community media, but the way those community media were understood in Serbia are civil society media. And of course, church was the first to recognize itself as civil society and some of media that are already functioning in Serbia are actually under the church jurisdiction. What we miss to understand at this point and where I look always towards well-developed community media in Western Europe as source of knowledge for us is how to understand community media more like community and less like media and not always asking people to produce high quality media content rather to present certain message. So it's like decreasing expectations for groups and allowing them to speak in their own voice and in their own language, simply facilitating technology around them and again giving them additional support. So even through development we are facing, we are at the risk of having community media misused by political situation in Serbia. Just to illustrate for those of you who are probably not aware of the Serbian situation, probably not aware of the Serbian situation, we live in very problematic political situation, having an authoritarian regime for more than 12 years at the point, led by a party who is very, that particular party is very well aware of media influence in Serbia and they took control over majority of media. As reaction to that, smaller groups of opposition party are making their own media. So when you observe Serbian media situation, there is no objective media that deserves trust. And living in this time, as Gabriela said, people are now producing their own content so they are not strongly depending on someone to give them information that means that people won't be able to formulate their message they would just be able to decide if they are for this or that version that is why i'm opting more for even more liberal approaches to media content development and that's where I find our role in podcast production boosting in Serbia because in that perspective when you don't have certain rule where to decide to go then maybe it's even better if we allow many people to produce and then allow so-called market to decide which one is correct. And then mentioning market, that is actually the situation that we might learn from each other from both sides, because from what we can see from outside of Europe, Europe is also going in that pendulum state, not always in right direction, even though it's always inspiration for us. Sometimes we see movements, such right-wing movements, that are really making us worry, I would say, probably even more than it worries you, because when we see that, for example, Austria or Germany can go in what we call wrong direction, then we are even more afraid of what can happen. And having that in mind also community media in serbia might take especially that role i'm not sure how often it happens here where community media are developed but i wouldn't be surprised if some right-wing movement takes over some community media because that also serves certain community. Just to finish on that kind of gentle tone, please don't go in wrong direction because we will lose our motivation, our road of development, and even worse, we won't have people to exchange the information what is the animal we are talking and touching. So it's even more problematic from our perspective. I'm keen and even more keener to hear Hungarian story. I even felt like I was interrupting the role. And I wish to learn from Gabriela where is Serbia on the list you are following. This is another invitation to continue your research. So thank you. die Sie folgen, ist das eine weitere Einladung, Ihre Forschung zu fortsetzen. Vielen Dank. Jovana Tripunovic, vielen Dank für Ihre Einladung. Vielleicht gibt es auch noch einige Fragen von den Publiken. Wir haben gesagt, wir wollen auch eine außer-uropäische Perspektive einnehmen. Und ich begrüße ganz herzlich Simon Inou. Er ist Medienkritiker und Journalist aus Kamerun. Du bist geflohen, glaube ich, als Journalist. Du warst als Radiojournalist tätig. Ich freue mich ganz besonders. Es war eigentlich ein Zufall, dass wir uns getroffen Blickpunkt nicht vergessen, weil wir können Meinungs- und Pressefreiheit, Medienfreiheit auch nicht ganz ohne diese Perspektive haben. Du bist Gründer der ersten unabhängigen Jugendzeitung Kameruns und derzeit Leiter der Public Affairs Abteilung in Radio Orange. Und hast du geschrieben über die Kämpfe von Radiojournalistinnen und Journalisten, Kamerun-Berichten und auch über Ermordung und Zwangsexil. Ich bitte dich um deinen Input. Noch einmal vielen Dank, Jörg. Thank you Daniela, thank you Giovanna. Noch einmal liebes Publikum, danke, dass diese Veranstaltung stattfindet. Danke auch, dass ich hier eingeladen bin, auch aufgrund der Tatsache, dass wir hier in einer europäischen Kulturhauptstadt sind und dass die OrganisatorInnen sich diese Mühe gegeben haben, uns einzuladen, damit wir über diese schwierige Sache reden. Ich komme aus Kamerun. Kamerun ist ein Land in Westafrika, Westzentralafrika. Und das ist genau, wo Afrika einen Knick macht. Das ist am Äquator. Kamerun wurde von 1884 bis 1919 von Deutschland kolonisiert und ab dann, nachdem Deutschland den Ersten Weltkrieg verloren hat, haben Franzosen und Engländer das Land übernommen bis 1960. Das heißt, mein Großvater sprach zum Beispiel die deutsche Sprache. Und wir sind in einem System aufgewachsen, wo es darum ging, eigentlich medial viel mehr nur auf diese Stimme, auf diese staatliche Stimme zu hören. Wir sind mit Radio, das erste Radio in Kamun wurde 1945 gegründet. Bis 2000 waren Radios und Fernseher nur in den Händen des Staates. Wir sind in einer Generation, wo ich erzählen kann, wir haben nur diese Perspektive gehabt von staatlichem Rundfunk. Und staatlicher Rundfunk bedeutet nicht, dass es unbedingt dem Publikum dient, sondern die Regierung. Und die Regierung zwischen 1960 bis in den 90ern war eine Diktatur und von den 90ern bis heute eine zweite Diktatur. Und innerhalb dieser Zeiten haben sich sehr, sehr viele mutige JournalistInnen getraut, gegen den Staat etwas zu machen. Und ich werde hier zum Beispiel meinen ehemaligen Herausgeber Prinz Jaue, der Le Messager in Kamerun die erste unabhängige Zeitung des Landes gegründet hat, reden, aber auch die römisch-katholische Kirche, die eine sehr, sehr maßgebliche Rolle gehabt hat in Bezug auf die Ausbildung von unabhängigen Journalistinnen und Journalisten, genauso wie den korrekten Journalismus, weil einer der ersten Skandale in Kamerun wurde von dem römisch-katholischen Priester aufgedeckt. Und wenn ich jetzt nicht so lange bin, ich komme jetzt in das Jahr 2023, hatten wir, Radio ist eigentlich am afrikanischen Kontinent das meistverwendete konsumierte Medium. Und wie in vielen Ländern haben wir staatliche, kommerzielle und Community-Radios. Und die kommerziellen Medien sind immer abhängig natürlich von Werbung und diese Werbung werden sehr oft von Firmen, die vor Ort sind, die sehr oft aus dem ehemaligen Kolonialmarkt, hier in Kamerun, Frankreich, finanziert. Und es ist so, dass diese kommerziellen Medien eigentlich nicht sehr, sehr unabhängig vom Staat berichten können, weil sie, weil der Staat auch Druck auf diese Firmen ausübt, zum Beispiel das Telekommunikationsunternehmen Orange, das französische. Wenn sie zum Beispiel inserieren in eine Zeitung, die die Regierung kritisiert, ist es so, dass diese Firma vom Staat bekommt, wenn sie weiter inserieren, werden wir nächstes Jahr die Lizenz nicht verlängern. Das heißt, es gibt hier eine Wechselwirkung zwischen Stadt und Unternehmen, die eigenen Druck auf diese kommerziellen Medien machen. Und auf der anderen Seite haben wir die Community-Medien, die in den 90er Jahren entstanden sind durch die römisch-katholische Kirche, mit Radio Maria zum Beispiel, und die versucht hat, innerhalb des Landes die eigenen Botschaften zu verbreiten. Aber gleichzeitig hatten wir die Unterstützung von der UNESCO-Kommission, haben wir sehr, sehr viele Vereine, sehr, sehr viele Initiativen, die eigene Radios gegründet haben. Aber diese Radios sind auch abhängig von den Finanzen aus dem Ausland. Und eine dieser Radiomacher in Kamerun hieß Martinez Sogo. Er ist ein junger Journalist, der beschlossen hat, gegen die Korruption im Land zu reden. beschlossen hat, gegen die Korruption im Land zu reden. Und am 17. Januar 2023 wurde er entführt. Und man hat nicht gewusst, wo er ist. Und fünf Tage später hat man nur verstummelte Leiche irgendwo in der Hauptstadt gesehen. Das heißt, hier hatten wir ein ganz problematisches Umfeld, wo es darum geht, ab dem Zeitpunkt, wo man dann die Regierung kritisiert, ist die Gefahr extrem groß, dass man auch das eigene Leben verlieren kann. Auf der einen Seite, die, die das weitermachen, werden so unter Druck gesetzt, dass sie das Land verlassen. Und seit einem Jahr diskutieren wir darüber, ob er begraben sein wird oder nicht. Eine Autopsie wurde gemacht, aber niemand weiß, worum es geht. Aber ganz konkret weiß man, dass der Martinez Sogo von Mitgliedern des Geheimdienstes plus einem Businessman getötet worden ist. Und aufgrund der Tatsache, dass dieser Mord an Martínez Sogo mit der Unterstützung des Staates, es gibt auch den Namen des aktuellen Justizministers, der sehr, sehr oft in der Untersuchung vorkommt. Und wir JournalistInnen im Ausland genauso wie im Inland versuchen, den Fall publik zu machen. Und wir wissen alle, dass die Situation, die Pressefreiheit in Kamerun, wir sind jetzt in der 138. Position in der Klasse von Reporter ohne Grenzen. Und es geht hier konkret darum, zu sagen, es ist wichtig, was wir hier als Medienfreiheit haben, ist für mich ein Genuss. Ich bin aus Kamerun geflüchtet vor 25 Jahren, weil ich für eine Tageszeitung gearbeitet habe, die genau diese Missstände aufgedeckt hat. Und ohne die Unterstützung von sehr, sehr vielen österreichischen Journalisten wäre ich nicht hier, um über diese Situation zu reden. Das heißt, das Thema ist entscheidend wichtig. Und es ist auch entscheidend wichtig, dass wir unsere Regierungen und unsere sogenannten Medienverantwortlichen unter Druck setzen, damit sich die Situation in Österreich zumindest verbessert, genauso wie in Ungarn oder in Serbien. Und ich glaube, dass ohne diese Zivilgesellschaft hätten wir das nicht geschafft, zumindest in Kamerun. Danke. Vielen herzlichen Dank, Simon Inou. Journalistinnen und Journalisten sind weltweit in Gefahr, auch in Europa. Sie sind auch mit Gewalt bedroht. Wir wenden uns, wie angekündigt, wieder Ungarn zu. Und ich freue mich, dass Akos Cséháty wieder bei uns am Podium Platz genommen hat. Er ist langjähriger Geschäftsführer von Civil Radio in Budapest und auch ein Radioaktivist der ersten Stunde in Ungarn. Wir haben es gehört hat es viel früher als in österreich freie radios gegeben und in der hochzeit du hast es uns gestern im workshop erzählt hat es bis zu 80 freie radios in ungarn gegeben das ganze hat dann ab 2011 etwa eine eine schlagartige wendung genommen mit Reglementierungen, die mehr oder weniger einer Zensur gleichkommen. Und heute, ab 2022, hat Zivilradio keine Sendefrequenz mehr. Trotzdem existiert dieses Radio nach wie vor. Es gibt Sendungsmachende, die ja auch bei uns auf Besuch sind, die heute auch da sind. Und ich möchte dich, Akos, bitten, über die Situation, über die derzeitige und aktuelle Situation beim Civil Radio und in Budapest to report? Well, I have to apologize for not speaking German. It's getting so embarrassing to me, but I promise that next week I will study, begin to study your wonderful language. And in addition to many of you know civil radio and you are aware of the Hungarian media situation so i shortly try to summarize our situation and who are we civil radio our radio was founded in 1993 and it was the first legal community radio in hungary no that time, it was called non-profit radio movement. And yesterday and in the last years, I learned that, for example, the Austrian community radio scene started later. So our founders were really the pioneers of community radio. of community radio and our main mission is the same as the overall community media movements giving voice to the voiceless people and we took it very seriously so our program makers are activists anyone can be a program maker at civil radio and we are a very colorful and vibrant community it shows that I think this is the real magic of community radio that the program makers are from various layers of the society so we have 14 years old volunteers we have 88 years old program makers. And sometimes when I look at our workshops, and we have a workshop in which which is held by a 14 years old boy, teaching to the elderly people how to use a smartphone, how to make recordings. And I cannot imagine such situation anywhere, just in a community community radio that youngsters are working with elderly people we had almost a homeless person we didn't know where he's going home because he was literally homeless but he made a show with a wealthier person who was a dentist. And it cannot really happen that in life these people meet one place in a studio. And at that time in the early 90s, we had a liberal, a much more liberal and open-minded government and decision makers. The people, the whole society was full of optimism. And I remember that at that time the slogan was that within five years we will live like the Austrians. 10 years later we said the same and still we said the same. We say all our politicians that in five years we will live like the Austrians. I can't wait for that five years. What will happen? And they let this community radio movement, they supported it at that time in the 90s. They really got the idea behind it, that it brings together the very different people. And it's not really expensive on the level of the government supporting the radios, giving them money for technical devices and for some money to rent studio places. So it was so obvious at that time that it's really worth on the level of the state supporting these radios. And we had almost 90 community radios and especially in the countryside they were very important but in smaller settlements they became a community center culturally and in many ways the centers of these settlements. And when the new media law came in 2011, I cannot find a better word, it eliminated the community media sector, the radios had to give up their operation. Like Gabriela's radio, it's so hard to understand and explain why a university radio should give up its operation because of the law forced to do that. This media law, and this is the trick when we try to face the government or the European Union is facing with these points that, for example, it was able to eliminate the community media sector. And the Hungarian government is saying that actually this is the first law which names the community media sector. In the previous ones there were no, just non-profit media. And when they say, yeah, but it's very, it gives the chance for the radio to censor their own programming. And they say, why? There is a quota system in our law which says that for example the community radios have to provide or broadcast 75 percentage public service content and it's a great thing we can all say that it's perfect or hungarian music 50 percentage hungarian music which is perfect because we support the uh the hungarian music scene but in practice it turned out that what we think about public service it's completely different what they think about the public service. And this is one of the examples I use, that when we were talking in a studio about poverty, and there were two guests who were poor people, and they said that we are so poor that we hardly can buy bread every day. And we said that this is a program a radio show which informs the people about poverty about the problems of society and the hungarian government of the media authority said that no this is not public service because you did not invited anyone from the government you officially in hungary there is no poverty according to the statistics because they just deleted the poor people. And they said that this is not. When we were talking about education, public education, with teachers and students, and they really faced the listeners what is happening in in the schools the media authority said that this is not public service because there is nothing there are people who are talking about some kind of problems if it's true or not and it turned out that what we are doing and we thought that 100% of our radio shows are public service. The media authority said no. And this really killed the radio, and we tried to comply with the law. And when we lost our frequency, which was at the very end of 2019, so we cannot be on terrestrial broadcasts from 2020. And they just pointed out that 11 times we violated the law, which means that in 2016, December 14th or December 24th, on that particular day, we broadcasted only 44% Hungarian music. On another day, we broadcasted less news. So when it came out that in seven years we violated the law only 11 times, we said it's brilliant. A nuclear power plant is working with less efficiency. Probably in many places they make more mistakes. So it was a kind of shock at that time. And here comes the real strength and the importance of the community radio movement. And it's very different than the podcast. Because it's very different than the podcast because it's it's a platform and our activities are not all not only about producing and making radio shows it's much more important that who are the program makers how the radio shows are born and the community that there is a real community behind it and probably this was the the most important factor of our survival that the radio show makers after losing the frequency came to the studio and they said that they don't care if it's a terrestrial broadcast or not here is the, there are the microphones, here we are, and the people whom we like to talk to, and there are those problems that we like to highlight on. So this was really an emotional moment in our life that the community came in and they said, we will go on. So this is our story in short and you asked me yesterday that and many times in studio or on the platform discussions I got this question that how other how the European Union could help changing the law or force Hungarian to use the law in practice differently. But we always say that, as in my example, how the government or the media authority mock this law, the government or the media authority mock this law, pointing on that what is the problem if we like to support the Hungarian music? And we say that 50% of radio programming should dedicate it to Hungarian music. What's the problem with this public service content? And the European Union cannot say that the problem is that how you're thinking about public service is very different how these radios are thinking about it. And they say it's a very philosophical question. So this is how they try to avoid and really the European Union is absolutely paralyzed or impotent in this way because when I say that, what are the news? They are saying, what is objectivity? They are very philosophical questions. In this law, we mentioned community media and there are certain quotas, but these are really super quotas. So in this way, it would not really help to force the European Union. I would say, and I always say that money, a fund, all the community radios of Europe, because we all have financial problems and many, many problems, and to keep and maintain the radios, problems and many many problems and to keep and maintain the radios if there were a fund absolutely dedicated to the community radio movement and on the level of the European Union 100 million euro is not too much it's nothing but it would be enormous overwhelming money for this sector for all the European radios and where we could apply, and it's not a given money, we could apply with our programs and activities. And it would be great to every country that, for example, in Hungary, you get the frequency only on your programming. only on your programming. And do not consider and do not count with your community activities. So it would be great if you got the frequency after your community activities, saying that in this year we will have 20 workshops for youngsters, for elderly people. They are open and we let the communities to do shows and we deal with these topics so it would be really great to build in somehow to the frequency low how they share it these community activities. Thank you. Just to share a topic, because it's forbidden to speak about poverty. Maybe you sing in Hungarian about poverty in Hungary, and then you have 50% of Hungarian music, and you cover the public topic as well. Thank you, Akos Chahati. Yeah, I think these ideas about giving an amount of money to a would be a possibility to get the independence for the media from the national government. And, yeah, I would like to open the podium now for questions from the audience. We also, yeah, we decided to make this podium speech bilingual in German and English. Not everybody was satisfied with that, but I think, yeah, for the most, it's easy to follow. So at this point, you can ask your questions in English or in German. We will try to translate also yeah so I are there any questions to the podium there is a microphone behind if I want to ask you and I ask again because we had this this topic already in some different statements but what what do we really need to support free media to make sure that local governments are not able to bring them down? There is a new law since May. It's the European Media Freedom Act. It's that kind of law law a law which really helps are the networks that are already exists like CMF II really help in this way there is also a platform display Europe which is where which is where we can share content of journalistic issues. So what do we need? Where should we go? I think you mentioned several projects, but the difficulty is that these projects are among a closed circle. People who are already involved in the community media movement have access to these projects, but the outer side of the society doesn't have access to these projects, but the outer side of the society doesn't have access to these projects. Or, like this case, it's an open environment, we are in a bookshop, and you invited all the people from Badisul to come and ask, listen, ask, and give a conversation with them. That's a new way of operating. And I think the community media movement should allow young people to come and for example, I would like to see many children in the radios. For example, you can make contracts or working together with schools, with school children, working together with schools, with school children, open the studios sometimes. In my hometown, I had a foundation, a media foundation, and we each year organized an open studios day. And on that day, all the media studios in my town were open full day long. And all people can visit the studios, the local TV studio, the local commercial radio studio, our university studio, and so on. And lots of people come and have a look at how does it work. of people come and have a look at how does it work. And I think you should step outside of this closed circle, not just the community media people have to connect it to this issue. Thank you. I see one of solutions in actually implementing the new media freedom act of Europe because we need to give it some time to work and just to add to what Gabriela said I since I know about display you I mean CMFE activities about inviting new actors I think they are on their way through the second year of the project and obviously they need to establish the platform before they can invite some new people to the platform. It would totally be out of point if they don't expand the network through this. But there was another challenge that is luckily now being overcome through that platform is when we speak about independence of course finance come first to mind because people cannot be really independent if they don't have their expenses covered but also the source of that money is something that it's luckily solved in a good way in some countries and not in very good way in some other countries. I'm sure that Hungarian case was very highly and openly motivated by funds that were available for those independent media during 90s. They were using funds for developing democracy, going through transition and once when those funds vanish, people just change their, it's really following the money. So there is another way of doing thing, also explaining to community that community media needs to be funded in a certain way. Then citizens can be those who can insist to government to cover expenses of community media, like actually proving that community media are important, no matter if they are willing to give their own pocket money to help financing certain media or they will vote for a party that will support community media but audience needs to see media as anything else as important in order to be recognized but what i don't want to miss to mention is that other independency, technological independency where now with display EU we are actually one step closer to being independent against global mass tech platforms because imagine being independent and then highly depending on for example Chinese algorithm of TikTok because it's again, you can be funded by any government or any institution, even privately. But if you are not independent from technology you are using, then you are in another level of problem. And that's why I mentioned that exchange of information between people touching same elephant, because some of you are now in certain troubles that we already passed for example due to some other circumstances and It even made me laugh last year when we were talking about situation somewhere in north of Germany Where commercial radio was using funds for community media? People from German community media were shocked while us from Balkans were like, oh, that never happened before, because we would find a way. And, you know, like, it's just through exchange of information, we are all facing same enemy, but we are also not using same definitions of what enemies, what independences, what object objectivity beside being philosophical question is also very easy to realize what's objective or not objective if you have enough of information and also community as such because despite having beautiful advantage of talking about community of people living together there are also global communities we belong to, not ever meeting, if you want to put it that way, and some media serve that purpose. So it's not necessarily always one studio where you can go. It's sometimes a platform you are using to exchange information with some other people because they are your community members as well. So I hope I contributed a little bit. Thank you. because they are your community members as well. So I hope I contributed a little bit. Thank you. Yes, as soon as I am the chief public affairs of Radio Orange, we have at the beginning of the year 2000, we had an interesting problem. We faced an interesting problem. After the right and conservative political party gained the power the first decision was to cut down the budget of radio orange and at that time the people of radio orange decided to ask for the viennese people this is what you were saying to ask viennese people, please, can you help us surviving by giving us some free donations? And this is what happened. A lot of Viennese people gave money to Radio Orange, and the city of Vienna completed this money in order to let Radio Orange survive. And I think this is one of the most powerful activities that community media can do. We are dependent on the communities, on civil societies. And this is where I think we should work to gain some credibility and some power. Because those who are in power, they are not interested to see us continue working they want us to die and we need only the population to help us to continue thank you thank you akash you already told a little bit what what do you think what we need but will you add some last words for that no just even though that your situation here in Austria or in Germany is better than the Hungarian one but still I've never heard from a radio here in Austria that everything is fine we just wrote on a list how much money we need except our radio here is everything fine. So no it's a really a bad thing that in Hungary in 95 percentage of our activities are for gaining the money, fighting for the money fighting for the money for keeping up the radio and we have only five or ten percentage energy focusing on the community which is really a bad thing so that's why i say a fund to where we could apply and our operation could be secured that way that it would change the rate then at the beginning of the year we know how much money we have and and we wouldn't be frustrated through the year and and that's the every day we we really cried at how less energy we had to the community, to the program makers, to the volunteers, to workshops, because we are fighting for the money. Thank you. I think I recently talked to the president of the Reporters Without Borders from Austria, reporters without borders from austria and he nearly told me the same that he thinks that the eu has to be support media with financial things and otherwise it will not go last yeah there is a question from the audience. Two, one. Okay. Okay, it's working. Akos, okay, financing is one thing. Opening, what Gabriela told, is the next thing. But I think if the national laws are not changing, it is definitely too hard, because all the money will not help if such things what Akos told before is happening. And I think one of the main point should be to change the national laws if possible, because such a government like in Hungary, I was living 20 years there, so I know what's happening. It definitely you can have enough money what you want you will not could exist because they all the time found some points which are stopping you well in our case we have been always very smart to find the ways. When we lost our frequency, we were lucky that there is the internet and the online world. And we can present our radio shows on other platforms. And when the media authority try... So it's like the game of the mouse and the cat. So it's like the game of the mouse and the cat. And we are really resilient or really, really... So we trained ourselves to avoid the traps of the law. So we could somehow manage our survival. And I think that we could manage this problem too. But this is the bad thing that we are chasing the money and cannot really focus on these activities. Otherwise, we don't care the law. And it's a good thing, again, that the online content or the online broadcast is not regulated yet. Yeah, yeah. There was another question, please. In Austria we will have elections this fall and there is the threat of shifting towards the direction, at least step by step. You described with the government joined by the FPÖ and so on. So with you knowing the Austrian situation now, with you knowing the problematic situations in your home countries, if you had to write a list of recommendations for us in Austria, if you had to write a list of recommendations for us in Austria, how now to prepare for a governmental change, so to say, which is joined by some half-fascist or whatever parties, what would you write on the top? That's definitely the moment for you to check really your closest community and to make sure that information around community are not only correct but timely. So what we are suffering is, I will use example between Kosovo and Serbia, because I'm not sure if you are aware, but let's assume you are. Kosovo is independent country, which is very, I now just said something against constitution of Serbia. So situation that happened last September, there was not so small, but let's call it small act of violence in the middle of night. And information, I was at that point, I was personally, by some other activity, led to south of Serbia. So I was 20 kilometers away from Kosovo it was a seminar or let's say training for mute activists and one-third of the whole group was from Kosovo and they got news about that act of violence early in the morning before breakfast. News showed up in Serbian media around noon, and we are talking about literally border-to-border situation. So because community that shares life in that area, they don't even share language, it's kind of challenging thing, but not so challenging from european perspective right you you have situations around where people are living nearby not really being able to understand each other but the fact that we could have even more complications and even more problems in case we didn't exchange it on personal level because as i said one group was from kosovo but then one group was from serbia so they didn't even know if they shouldn't take that road. I'm talking about going back home after seminar. So it's very local thing, but nothing in your media existed. Where that information showed was actually on, yes, on podcast platform, but not being part of podcast. It was just the easiest thing to be published so that's how the rest of that area found out that they shouldn't take that road so we are talking about exchanging information in timely manner and in correct way what else can your favorite authorian do to you is also to limit your access to viable information, but not only in sense of having them, but also in sense of having them in certain shapes. So that is why I'm mentioning community as nearest group that can protect you and simply show where it's going. And of course, try to defend your rights, because we forgot we are now, i don't know which generation of having some basic fundamental rights just available but they were once fought for so we need to get back in that sense that whatever is gifted it's probably not promised so if we feel like freedom is gifted we are on wrong track yes we have it at the point but you need to have your elbows bit higher just to protect that level of freedom and I don't want to bring any pessimism to this beautiful surrounding just fight strongly to keep your freedom it was a pessimistic question that's true thank you very much if there is no other question I think we are good in time to Danke sehr. Vielen Dank. Wenn es keine weiteren Fragen gibt, sind wir in der Zeit, hier einen Punkt zu machen. Vielen Dank für Ihr Kommen. Vielen Dank für Ihre Worte und Ihre Statements. Ich wechsel eine letzte Mal in Deutsch. Dankeschön auch an alle, die heute hier gekommen sind im Publikum. Danke auch an die Technik hier im Raum. Herb Grabner, Dankeschön. Danke an alle, die hier mitgearbeitet haben. An das B138 natürlich und auch an das gesamte Team des Freien Radio Salzkammergut im Namen dessen. Vielen Dank. übernommen hat. Und ja, ich denke mir, es war viel Pessimistisches, viel Negatives, weil die Zeiten auch nicht gerade leichter geworden sind, auch was die Medien- und Pressefreiheit anbelangt. Was uns vielleicht positiv stimmen sollte, ist dieses Bewusstsein, positiv stimmen sollte, ist, dass dieses Bewusstsein, dass unabhängige Medien einen so zentralen Stellenwert in Demokratien haben, dass dieses Bewusstsein vielleicht trotzdem ein bisschen stärker geworden ist und ein Ansatz für uns alle, dafür einzustehen, dafür zu kämpfen und auch zu überlegen, wenn wir wählen. Dankeschön.