Hello again. It's great to have you with us again for the second part of our international media conference in the eye of infodemic. It's quite interesting because at the very early beginnings of our plannings, we were convinced that if we are intending to change the media landscape with our conference, with all our activities, it's highly necessary to consider this landscape globalized. And I guess I already mentioned that we cannot stay on our point of view just in our northern rich world. No, that's not enough. We have to extend our perspectives. And that's why it's really, really important, probably even obliged, to involve other perspectives. Let's call it these perspectives of the southern hemisphere, because we are always talking about global injustice, solidarity, development, and let's make the world moving around together in a democratic sense. And then I remember quite well in the last summer, I guess around end of August, beginning of September, I started a research on the internet just entering some keywords. I was searching for Africa, TV, democracy, participation, I don't know. And I got a couple of matches. And on the top of the tops, there was one name called Sissi Nalumansi. And I got a bit deeper into my research and was really amazed. I found a young filmmaker, storyteller from Kampala in Uganda. Quite busy, really busy. She's also acting herself. She's singing and well and I discussed with my colleagues and probably will try it and invite her and I'm really pleased because now she's here. You are here, Sissi. It's great. It's really great because now she's here. You are here, Sissi. It's great. It's really great. And yeah, I don't want to waste more time. It's now up to you. You have 30 minutes to introduce us, to introduce yourself for us into your world, into your perspectives from the southern side of the world. And yeah, I'm really curious. And it's not up to you. The stage is yours. The mic is yours. And we will discuss it later on. Thank you. And I'm going to stand. I know it's the afternoon and everyone wants to sleep. So if I see you sleeping, I'm just going to say, go on. You're doing a great job sleeping. And we'll have a great time that way. So my name is Sissi Nalmanci, but before I even introduce myself any further, I would like to ask, how many of you love gossip? A sweet, nice gossip. Yeah? Well, I thought I was the only one. The introduction of smartphones, the access to the internet, and then search engines and social media platforms has created an influx of information. In other words, there are a million, billions of information that is moving around social media, and this has created an information pandemic, as we all know. But how much of this information is true? Just some, right? Oh, by the way, the people in Uganda send their regards. In 1908, Sir Winston Churchill, once Prime Minister of the British Kingdom, visited Uganda and after everything, he named it the Pearl of Africa. I think it's because of the abundant wildlife, the beautiful women, the amazing foods. But I don't think Sir Winston Churchill stuck around Uganda long enough to understand our political climate, because when it comes to freedom of speech, democracy, democracy, multi-party sort of human rights and all, Uganda is not the pearl of Africa. And that takes us to what the citizens feel, because in these situations, citizens have decided to resort to mob justice. Do we know what mob justice is? Yeah? We don't. So mob justice is when they find you committing a crime and they justify you right there and they beat you and they kill you. Just like that. And in 2015, I was a victim of mob justice and I almost lost my life. I remember I was pursuing my bachelor's degree in IT from Makerere University, and that semester we had a very, very keen lecturer. Like, if she came to the class before you, you would not be allowed to come in. I think she was encouraging people to keep time, and so everybody knew that they had to rush for her class. But as I was preparing for my class, I remember it was getting late. I realized I didn't have enough money on me to facilitate me going here and there, and so I decided to rush to town, exchange the money. I had some euros on me, exchange the money, and then proceed to the university. But after exchanging the money, the shortest route that takes you to the taxi park where you get the taxi that would take me to the university is through a second-hand clothes market. I hope there's a picture here to show you how it looks like. Just like that. I hope you're able to see it. So that is the setup where I had to go through to access the taxi park. And in this market, usually the sellers grab your hand like, sister, come and buy from me. Come and buy from me. And I told myself I am going to be serious, like put on a serious face so that when they see me, they are going to see that I'm in real business and they won't bother me. So as I'm putting on my serious face and moving around, one seller grabs my hand and says, sister, come and buy from me. And I said, leave me alone. I am rushing. And then I moved and the second seller grabs my hand. So when he grabbed my hand, I whisked my hand away again just to show him how serious I am. And then he grabbed it again. And now I was feeling anxious and angry, and I grabbed my hand away from him, and he grabs it again. And so I was like, what is wrong with you? And then he shouted, thief, this girl is a thief. Let me paint for you the picture of a thief. I had an amazing pair of jeans, very tight, and a blouse, and a nice cross bag, which had the money I'd exchanged and an iPhone, a tablet, an iPad. That is where I was making my notes from. I had slotted them in the bag, but that did stop the man from saying I was a thief. And in just one second, as you've seen the image, because there are so many people in this market, in just one minute, they had surrounded me. And I had seen this happen a million times where people were murdered, and we were seeing it on screen because everybody thought they were thieves. So I am stuck. I usually freeze when I'm in overwhelming situations. So I froze as everybody was like shouting, we are tired of thieves in this market. Let's show how what we are made of. And everyone was charging towards me. And all it takes is just one punch, one kick. You bounce to the other person and the other person also kicks you and you fall down and the stone finds you down. And someone is always there with some gasoline. I don't know how they always keep it closed. And then they burn you alive. And that is the end of the story. So I knew that was going to happen to me. And as one of the people in the audience was raising their hands to hit me, I got the audacity. I don't know where I got it. And I said, are you stupid? Actually, that's exactly what I said. Are you stupid? What have I stolen? And then there was silence, brief silence. And I said, can someone go through your market rushing? And I was shaking as I was saying these things. And then one person in the audience said, shaking as I was saying these things. And then one person in the audience said, let her go. And they said it in Luganda. And they said, which means, let the skinny one go. And this was sort of like an insult to me. And they let me go. I don't remember how I reached home because I didn't even go to school. But I remember sitting in the couch at home thinking about how I had lost my life. And I imagined every single person that I had seen on screen, who they said had committed the crime, and they justified why they ended their lives. And now I started to ask myself, were they really guilty? When they told them you're guilty and they sentenced them to death, were they really guilty? And I remember one man specifically, he was a Muslim man, and in the morning they killed him and they said he was stealing a bike. We have bikes in Kampala that ride you around when you pay them. So he said, the people on the news said, when he realized they were going to kill him and they were determined to kill him, he asked them to pray. And he said, OK, now that I'm going to die, please give me a minute to pray. And they said, yeah, you want to pray? Take the minute. And he knelt and prayed. And after praying, they said, are you done? And he said, yes. And they hit him with the last stone and he died. And later the family came and said, this man was a principal citizen in this country. He wouldn't even hurt a fly. So I imagined how just one wrong information can change history. Somebody just saying something that they are not even sure if it is true, and it changes, it takes away, it changes the life of someone forever. Now, that was happening in geolocations in a space that is not even on the internet. But imagine now where millions of people on the internet can access information at the same time everywhere in the world. When they decide to find you guilty, who will stop them from stoning you to death? Yeah? Because now everybody can access this information and whatever bias they have on you will go justified. Now, with all that is happening, we would expect that the government is doing something about it. Yeah? What do you think they are doing? Many claim that the governments in Africa manipulate social media to their advantage to pass on misinformation and all. Like, for instance, in 2011, I think you remember the Arab Spring? Do you remember that revolution that had two African countries topple their governments in a revolution, the Uganda Communications Commission banned some keywords on social media, like Gaddafi, like Libya, because they thought probably that is going to be passed on to their, we were sort of like maybe going to protest and overrule their kingdom in a way. And then we have in 2021, where the government of Uganda banned social media completely. And even up to now, Facebook is still banned. But that was because of the fact that in 2020, at the end of 2020, people took it to the streets to protest against the illegal arrest of an opposition leader. So then the government responded by saying, oh, so you orchestrated this drama on social media. Okay, then we are cutting you off. And it's been like that. The transition has not been easy. And so many other things that have been happening around the world, like in Cameroon, I think from 2016, there's been cut off of internet and social media from English-residue speaking areas, and I think in 2019 alone, there have been shutdowns in Chad, in Gabon, in Algeria, in Sudan, and this happens usually during voting and election time. Then, with all that that is happening, we would like to know what is the role of media. Where are they in a time like this when they should be reporting all these things that are happening? At first, we thought the existence of social media is going to overrule the existence of normal television, mainstream media. But then after some time, we realized that these two can coexist. These two can coexist because even as people watch social media videos of things that are happening around the world, they still go to the mainstream media platforms to verify whether it's true. When I see my friend posting that a president has died, I always run to maybe CNN and say, is this true? So definitely these two can coexist. Is this true? So definitely these two can coexist. In Uganda specifically, commercial media is thriving because I think of the fact that they can broadcast advertisements and sell airtime, so they are getting good revenue coming in here and there. But when it comes to non-commercial media, it is dying. Like, for instance, in Uganda, I think we have only two stations. We have Radio Maria and Lighthouse Television. And unfortunately, or fortunately, they are both Christian-based platforms. So that means the values of democracy, multi-party rules and all are not instilled in them because they are focused on nurturing the spirit of this Christian and preparing them for the next life. And that takes us back to the cycle of mob justice, where people feel like they can't express them. There is no platform for them to express themselves. Now, we come to the interesting part. Do you guys know that in Africa there is neocolonialism going on? Yeah? Not only in Africa. Yeah, I think it's happening everywhere, but in Uganda, in Africa, there is a new form of colonialism that is being engineered by multinational corporations. For instance, Google, engineered by multinational corporations. For instance, Google, Star Times, MTN, and these corporations are influencing the mindsets of the people to sort of like exist in the market. For instance, Star Times, which is a broadcast platform, influences the kind of content that they have on their stations, and they fill it up with Chinese imperialistic content. Now, leave alone the fact that most of the products that we are using are coming from China, then we are suffering with even every platform having Chinese imperialistic content moving around. And I think two years ago, there was a video that was making rounds on social media, and there were two black Africans who were conversing in concocted Chinese. And one of them was like, you know how you can come up with something like that? And the other one would be like, hi. And they went on conversing in this concocted Chinese. But on their video up there, went on conversing in this concocted Chinese, but on their video up there, there was a caption, we are preparing ourselves for when the Chinese finally colonize us. So you see how the mindsets of people are starting to change because of the information that is being passed on to them. With all this happening, we know that the government is not doing much to change the misinformation. The media is scared to speak out to even the multinational corporations because it affects their revenue and they stand to serve to get the revenue. So they're scared to out these people for their wrongdoings. Then we want to know what is the future of non-commercial television in this scenario. And I have been thinking about this for some time since Martin invited me. And I was wondering, what is the future of non-commercial televisions? In other parts of the world, I can't really say for them. But in Africa, in Uganda specifically, I think the future of non-commercial television starts with the reinstallation of non-commercial television. Because if non-commercial television is dying and there is no more roots of it being in the grounds, then the future is gone, like completely gone. So we have to go back to the drawing board, re-establish non-commercial media in Africa, in Uganda, and then we can start to think about how to keep it in the future that we want to define and create. Like, why don't we have DoF TV Uganda? Why don't we have DoF TV Uganda? Then we will have a starting point, and then we will instill in it the values of democracy, and then we will have a starting point, and then we will instill in it the values of democracy, and then we will have a foundation that we can keep watering to make sure that it blooms and grows. Then once we have done that, then we can focus on other things like collaborations with, let's say, search engines and social media platforms, so that when this information is passed on, they can sort of guide the citizens to know how to interact with this information, to not be bombarded with the reality of the anxiety that comes when you are given so much information that you can't really deal with at the same time. But then also we need to train people with how to deal with this too much information. Remember every second, every second, so much information is coming in. With Facebook, you just have to sort of like scroll a bit and new information is popping and popping and popping. And at one point you can get confused with how you process this information. So in a time like this, we would love to train people to pause. When you see a post that is saying all Ugandans are selfish, yeah? And it's very detailed. 20 reasons why Ugandans are selfish people. And it's well constructed. Take a minute to think, is this information true? Where is it coming from? Is the person authorized to pass on this sort of information? How do other people say about it? And many other ways so that people are reminded to not react because of the dopamine in them and their adrenaline, because usually wrong information sort of like excites us and we want to act immediately. We want to go to the streets because they say the president shot and killed 200 people and we're like, let's storm the state house and kill everybody inside there. Before we go to those steps, we need to think about this information. And I think people do not know how to pause. It is a culture that we need to cultivate in them to pause and think. And then there will be a future for non-commercial television versus social media, which is sort of like stomping because of the too much information that is happening. And then probably we can also bring social media influencers on board. We have so many social media influencers in Uganda. There are so many people who follow them, hanging on to every word. If they say, let's go to the cinema and watch this, people are going to go. So how about we use these platforms and we pass on the message, the truth, through these people, because they have access to many people. They have access to everybody people. They have access to everybody, so probably they could guide people into the direction of the justified right information instead of just letting people to hang onto the string of, is this true? Should we act? Should we not act? And then we need to train journalists. I don't know if our journalists in Austria are very professional, but in Uganda, it's a different case. Many times, I think it's come from the fact that they feel that if they say anything controversial against the government, then their lives are threatened. So they've fallen into the stereotype of doing what pleases the government, whereby if it's the president, they are going to be so humble when they're even asking questions that concern citizens. Mr. President, sir, we were wondering, sir, if you would allow us to sort of like ask you this question, sir, and please do not feel offended. They are usually massaging him in the back. So it is hard in a situation like that to speak out your mind because you are afraid that you're going to scratch this lion the wrong way and the lion is bound to attack you and make you disappear. So we need to train them to stand on the values. Also, going back to how they acquire this information to understand and to learn listening and reporting skills so that in the end, they understand that people and citizens are not commodities and their information is not commodities, but rather they need to find a way to bridge the gap, having a purpose in mind that this information is to build a democratic society. So instead of just, but you know, you've ever been in situations like where the lawyers put you in court and they're like, they are trying to justify that you committed a crime. And so they will ask questions that lead you into saying you are guilty. So then we have journalists who act like that and they are like, tell us why you did this. And in a way, they are misdirecting you into confirming the truth that doesn't exist. And so we need to cultivate a culture of them understanding why they need to get this information and the impact of them getting this information. And keeping in mind that how the message is packaged to a greater extent determines the way it is being perceived and then also the call to action of how people and the citizens will react to this information. And maybe lastly, because I'm against time, lastly, it's training law enforcers in Uganda specifically, I don't know about other countries, but training law enforcers on how to react with journalists and with the citizens. Because I know we can take forums and create public deliberations where information and issues that concern citizens can be discussed, and then these issues will be raised to even a bigger platform. But when we are surrounded by people who are law enforcers and they do not know how to act around us because they think we are against them or we are trying to be anti-government, then we are going to have problems. For instance, when I was filming one of my films called Namudu, we were shooting at night. And then at one point, officers came. It was around two in the morning. It was around 2 in the morning. Yeah, we don't sleep when we are filming. So around 2 in the morning, these officers came and they are like, we've been told you're here robbing people. And we said, no, we are not robbing people. We are filming. And they said, ah, okay. What shows that you're filming? We have equipment. We have cameras. Maybe you're recording when you're stealing people. And I'm like, no, we are not doing that. And then he said, okay, explain to me your equipment. Then I said, that's a boom. And they said, a boom. Because to them, their mindset is a boom goes kaboom. Yeah. So they're like, so you're going to bomb people. And I'm saying, no, it records, it captures voices just like a shotgun. And they say, do you even have a gun? And I say, no, a shotgun captures sound. And they're like, that is when I realized most of the words we use in film are dangerous words. Cut, action, kill the light. Yeah, everything is dangerous and said and to explain to them that no these are just words that we use is really not easy so we need to bring them on board to understand that it is a safe environment for people to raise their voices and speak about issues that concern them without them feeling like uh we we are trying to take over or overrun the ruling government. Thank you so much for listening, Tobi. Many thanks, Sissi. It was a great brief and great impression of being a media activist in Uganda. And when I was listening to you, there was coming up in my mind that I remember one day, a long time ago, I guess it was in the year 2005, I invited an Indian scientist for an international conference discussing the challenges of the future information society. And there is just one phrase really remaining in my mind until now. He said, information is like a tiger. If you don't ride it, it will eat you up. Why do I, I'm coming back to that. It's because your approach, your personal approach is very similar. You're really talking in pictures and images. And that's totally different. There is a cultural difference because it's a question of media competence. We were already talking with Sonja today. This competence is the skills which has to be extended up to the cultural comprehension. And probably you can explain it. That's your chance. That's your chance. We probably can pick up because by this you can bring even very complex things down to the ground. And what can you tell us? How can we get more into it? How can we use it for our purposes? In Austria? In our northern world. Interesting. I think it is really, really important that we've come to a platform where we appreciate the differences in our culture. Because that has been a problem to begin with. I think the Western front, and I hate going personal, but I am personal. I'm a person, so I have to be personal. There's been this perception of them wanting to do things their way and they reflect on us. I hope you understand me. It is a shoe that was made in the US, let's say, for example, and it's a high heel, but you are bringing it to Africa for the very first time and you want everyone to dress it and be comfortable in it. Yeah. So that has been like the sort of the cliche that has been going on. You format the way media is in the West, and you want people in Africa who have a difference in culture to adopt to the system the way it is and fit in perfectly, yet it's not our system. So after understanding the difference in who we are, then it's easier to sort of like bring the words together. And when we are doing that, we realize that the voice is one, that there is not so much difference, except the way that we pass on the information. Like, whereas your system is different and our system is different, the most important thing that stands out is the topic, is the idea that we all stand for. And if it's freedom, it's freedom. Your freedom can be different from my freedom, but we might express our freedoms differently. And so one of the things that we all have to get over and move past is the idea of thinking that some of the things that work for the West or some of the things that work for our counterparts in Europe or in other parts of the world are definitely going to work for Africa. Our systems are different. I was talking to Martin yesterday and I told him I was walking on the streets. I just decided to get lost yesterday in Lins. And I was walking on the streets and I realized people don't talk to each other here unless they know you. But you know what happens in Africa. I move out of my house. People I don't know, as long as you just sit near them, then they're going to start saying, oh. And then you're like, what's wrong? I just took my kid to school and these kids have issues these days. And this person is going, yeah, you are right. Like my kid the other day was talking about this and this. And then you're going to strike a conversation. And that's the blues. You're talking about the ruling government, how Museven is frustrating you. And before you know it, you're like, oh, by the way, my sister is having a graduation. Would you like to come? And then this person says, of course, what should I bring? Oh, bring anything, money, anything. Oh, good. And then they share contacts and the next day they are best of friends and they're posting each other on social media. That doesn't happen here. I haven't experienced that. I sat in the park. Everyone was talking to themselves. Either they were talking to their phones or talking to their cigarettes. Yeah? So we have to understand and acknowledge the fact that we're different, but the message is sort of like the same. What's also coming up in my mind was some sort of ambivalence of our realities because currently we do have this reality of repressive border regimes. We have immigration laws, very repressive, like they want to always avoid that people from the south are coming to us. And so they also avoid this physical sort of exchange of people coming together in this globalized world. But on the other hand, we are all, you and me and all the audience as well, we are all using digital communication technologies. using digital communication technologies. You already were talking about the cutting off the social media applications. I also experienced it in Cameroon when I lived in Cameroon in the far north. It was during the Arab Spring that the Cameroonian regime has cut off my mobile Twitter account because it was too dangerous. But nevertheless we are all using these technologies and so the doors are open for exchange. Probably one day there are a bunch of people from Uganda contributing TV program, uploading it up to DOF TV. Yeah. We definitely need a cultural exchange to build more on it. When I said I want to see DOF TV Uganda, I was serious. Gabby, I'm serious. I want to go to DOF TV in Uganda, but also because exchanges of culture. I know so many stories, so please indulge me. You're welcome. So my friend was studying in Germany at the time. That was like 25 years ago. And so, maybe 30. And he came to Germany to study. And some of the people that were interacting with him for the very first time learned that he was from Kenya. And they said, oh, you are from Africa. And the moment you say I'm from Kenya, they look for where Kenya is. It's in Africa. And then somehow they think Africa is a country. So Kenya is a district. Uganda is a district. Somehow they think Africa is a country. And they were like, oh, so you're from Africa. Yes. Oh oh I know someone in Nigeria do you know him and then he kept saying I know but the other one is a different country altogether and they're like oh okay so how did you get here in their mind they think we do not have airports you know and so my friend said, oh, I jumped on trees like monkeys. And then I jumped from one tree and one tree took me to the other tree. And then I am here in Germany. So he was just making a fool of them. But that happens because of the fact that we do not have cultural exchanges, because cultural exchanges come with the appreciation of the other side of the living person. So if I get to see many Austrians in Uganda, then it's easy for me to start appreciating their culture and their way of life. But if you are seeing me here for the very first, I hope nobody thinks I jumped on trees like a monkey to come here. But if you do not know me or my background, then you might think that I do not have the kind of life that you have. Or if you haven't come to my world, it's easier for you to think I live under a hill or sort of I do not have internet and those sorts of cliches that we see on social media. So we need the cultural exchange a lot. And I think a platform that is established in Uganda and maybe in Austria can sort of facilitate that exchange. I'm now looking again into the audience. Are there any people who would like to say something, critique? Microphone, just with the microphone. Sisi, maybe we could start this exchange and Dorf TV in Uganda by giving you a channel on our web platform and you upload and we broadcast it and maybe we find also something that's interesting for your colleagues and your friends and people there. Yeah, that would be great. Just for starting it. I'm not sure if you are really aware what Dorf TV really means. It's village TV. It doesn't matter. It's a TV. It's a platform to raise voices. But also, most importantly, maybe something that you have to know is Uganda and many other African countries are comprised of 70% of the population being under the age of 35. So we are youths everywhere. And you know how that has affected the youths? I'm going off track again. In dating, when people are dating, you break up with someone and you think they are going to look for you, but because you're so many, they are with someone else and they never turn back. So that is how I imagine that if I'm in a country where there are many, very old people, if somebody breaks up with you, they're going to look around and there's nobody else, and they're like, yeah, I have to go back to my girlfriend. But in situations where there are so many young people there are so many options but that also goes back to the fact that their minds are working youths have the brains that are untapped like there's so much energy in their brains that is yet it is yet to be tapped and with these opportunities, they are willing to fight to see their presence to be felt. So with the opportunity of DOF TV, it is easier for these youths that are striving to prove that they are capable of doing something, strive for this opportunity. And then again, the exchange can come in with the great ideas that can come along with it. I would like to focus more on a point, on a role, one of your roles as a storyteller, because I remember in an early moment of our preparation of your talk, I invited you to really get into this question of narratives. Because it's pretty bizarre, as I perceive it. We here in Austria and Europe, we have a lot of resources, we have a lot of technology, we have a lot of money, we have a lot of high performative internet connection. But what we do not often have is an idea of narratives. You even can think it's in a level above politically. If you take this, the European Union, there's a lot of crisis within the European Union, often due to the lack of an idea of what is our common narrative. And you as a storyteller, you're working with narratives, you're coming up with narratives. And can you give us some impression of your work regarding these democratic dimensions to involve people, to build up communities. Like a tree, let's take this African image. The old man is gathering young guys around the tree in the middle of the village. How to handle it? How to cope with it? Okay, wow. Thank you for asking me that question. When you check out my website, which is www.ccnalmansi.com, you will read about my bio. And you will see that one of the things that I like to do is to tell African stories from the African narrative, the African perspective. And I'm fighting as much to get away from the cliches of how things were told in those Hollywood films. But to get back to you, when I am telling stories, one of the first things that I'm looking for is the representation of Africa. I don't know if you've watched so many films that are done in Africa about Africans by Hollywood. You can check out Out of Africa. Is it Mr. Bon or something? There are very many. I could list them down for you. But you realize that there's this white supremacy that comes with them, whereby if the white person comes, then they come with the power to heal. They are like the Messiah. When they come, medical care comes with them. When they come, they instill brains in the Africans who didn't know what to do with their cows. They come with the idea that I know how to conserve your nature better than you. You who has lived there for centuries, you don't know how to conserve your nature better than you. You who has lived there for centuries, you don't know how to conserve your nature, but then they come in to show you how to do it. I don't have a problem with them having this knowledge, but the fact that they think a continent that has existed for so many years doesn't know how to handle themselves, then that is where I have the problem. So in my stories, I'm not attacking anyone or showing them that what you're doing is wrong. I'm just showing them another perspective. Like the stories that I've told, which are mostly women empowerment stories, but enriched in the culture. I have told stories like Kela, we are writing Sanyu, I did Namodu, it's just empowering these women on how to survive in Africa. And I'm telling them from the African perspective where I'm telling everybody, we do not need a Messiah to sort of like fight and overcome these challenges that we are facing. We have whatever it takes. And I keep telling the youths in Uganda when I'm given a chance of a platform that we are not like the West. We are blessed much more. You've been to Africa, so you know that we don't have seasons. We just have the rain and the sun. Every single day you can go out there and do something. Yeah? And then I keep asking them, if we are having winter would we survive the people who have winter have innovated their lives and they are doing they are doing much better in infrastructure in technology but you who has 365 days of the year you are are begging for bread, and you have both legs and both hands. And I'm trying to get them to think that with all the resources that we have, we can't really be sitting on our backs and waiting for some fund or aid to come from a country that is struggling through four seasons, that has so much to be handling, to be taking care of simple things like that. We have fat outsourced, we have all these things. And so they are waking up and looking at themselves as no longer the disabled, the invalids that their minds were constructed to think. But also it goes back to that education system that we've been fighting for so many years that is whitewashed, like a white tomb, whereby on the outside it looks beautiful, but there are margots on the inside. So it is beautiful on the outside. You go to class, you study theory, you come out, you start looking for a job. But in reality, you should be creating jobs because you have the capacity to create these jobs. So those are the conversations that we are usually having with the youths in changing their perspective, because the moment we break them from that colonial perspective of thinking, I have to look up to someone who is coming in a plane, then we are definitely going to start having different conversations, different narratives of what we believe in, and then the story will change completely. Yeah. Yeah, thank you very much, Sissi. what we believe in and then the story will change completely. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you very much, Sissi. Now there's the point where we have to end up. But I can let you know that Sissi will stay a bit longer the whole day today and even tomorrow she will be doing a workshop with CHAPO, this association of women of color here in Linz, talking about working on this topic of storytelling, producing narratives and to bring it on the screen. Thank you very much, Sisi. It was very, very great and I really enjoyed it. It gives me some good feelings of how we can even turn around our own perspectives. So let's do it and if there are any questions left, I will call you. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you very much.